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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Tom Clarke who wrote (81142)	3/11/2003 9:12:10 AM
From: Tom Clarke	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Would any other head of state been treated this disrespectfully? Bush Apologizes in Call to Karzai Afghan Leader Offended by Treatment at Senate Meeting By Marc Kaufman Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, March 11, 2003; Page A17 KABUL, Afghanistan, March 10 -- President Bush called Afghan President Hamid Karzai last week to apologize for the way he was treated in a meeting with members of a Senate committee on Capitol Hill late last month, according to senior Afghan officials. The call was initially described by a White House official as a conversation about progress in the war against terrorism, but it was actually to make amends for what Bush considered unfair grilling of Karzai at the gathering, the officials said. During the conversation, the Afghan officials said, Bush offered to make the apology public, but Karzai declined. "Bush called to say he was really sorry about how things had gone in the Senate, and that Karzai should not have been treated like that," said an official familiar with the call. The problem arose when Karzai visited the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for what the committee had billed as a "meeting." Generally, heads of state meet with the committee in private, but Chairman Richard G. Lugar (R-Ind.) instead invited Karzai to a hearing room with reporters present. Karzai was placed at a witness table looking up at the senators, the usual layout for people summoned to testify at a hearing. There were several skeptical and hostile questions that Karzai did not expect and had not prepared for, according to the Afghan officials. Andrew Fisher, spokesman for Lugar, said today that the Afghan delegation "clearly knew the format and that [the meeting] would be public." He cited a letter Lugar sent to Karzai almost two weeks before the Feb. 26 meeting informing him that it would not take place in the private room and that members of the news media would be present. "I believe that press coverage of the meeting and its broadcast on American television will prove invaluable to educating the American people and international community to the challenges facing Afghanistan," the letter said. The letter also said that the committee was "exploring several options to alter the layout of the facility to reflect your status of President of Afghanistan." Fisher said that, in the end, the only change was that Karzai's chair was elevated slightly; placing it higher would have blocked the camera angles, he said. The Afghan Embassy inspected the layout before the meeting and approved it, Fisher said. Karzai was angry on leaving the meeting, according to Afghan officials. He was said to be particularly upset with his ambassador to the United States, Ishaq Shahryar, and there have been unconfirmed reports that Shahryar will be replaced. The ambassador was absent today in Kabul for a first gathering of Afghan ambassadors from around the world. Many in the Karzai party were also dismayed at what they saw as congressional misunderstandings about the harsh realities of Afghanistan, as well as the progress that has been made. "We thought these people were our friends, but now we really don't know," a senior Afghan government official said. "This was a protocol blunder, and there was real insensitivity on the part of some senators. They were talking about nitty-gritty problems in Afghanistan and missing the big picture that there is a war on terrorism going on while we try to make a country again from scratch." In his phone call, Bush told Karzai that he believed the trip had been a clear success, according to the Afghan officials. A White House spokesman did not dispute the basics of the Afghan account but declined to comment further. In a follow-up letter after the hearing, Lugar also gave an upbeat assessment and alluded to the bad feelings. "I appreciate the difficulties that sometimes arise in public events of this type as Senators probe all aspects of the issue at hand. Be assured that you are considered a true friend and statesman who has demonstrated great skill and courage." In addition to being seated at a table below the committee members, Karzai was scolded by some of them. Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) warned that if Karzai told the committee everything was going well, "the next time you come back, then your credibility will be in question." Hagel said later that he felt the administration had "coached" Karzai. Holding a recent report released by the advocacy group Human Rights Watch, Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) told Karzai that "police in Herat are detaining women and girls caught alone with unrelated men, are being forced to submit to medical exams to see if they have recently had sexual relations." The Karzai government is trying to expand its authority across the country, but it still has only limited control in many areas, including the western city of Herat. © 2003 The Washington Post Company washingtonpost.com

To: Tom Clarke who wrote (81142)	3/11/2003 11:06:37 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

It was very distressing to hear the Vatican spokesman say the only way a war can be justified is through the UN. (He should have said atheistic and anti-Christian UN.) The disintegration of the Catholic Church has been stunning. That's a good point. Does the Vatican not retain sufficient self-confidence to function as a moral arbiter for such points by itself?

To: Tom Clarke who wrote (81142)	3/11/2003 12:44:15 PM
From: KLP	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

It does make you wonder, doesn't it? Re the Roman Catholic Church....all one has to do there is just observe it's actions~ (or inactions as the case might be). Have we seen the Pope or any of the other officials condemn Saddam for the murder of his people, or have any recommendations as to how to have Saddam comply with the UN resolutions to get rid of ALL WMD? We see the Council of Churches in Seattle send Jim McDermott et al to Iraq in seeming support of Saddam. We've seen Jimmy Carter say he's a Christian, and we know he is a Past President of the US....write pieces that seem to support Saddam and not our President who is insisting Saddam comply with the 17 !!! UN Resolutions to destroy all WMD... The Holy Roman Catholic Church has hundreds of thousands, if not millions, more members than does any so called Evangelical or religious right members.... (check religions of the world under google, for those who need to check the numbers...they are there....) Makes one really wonder again what the Vatican's' position on Hitler was in WWII and what they did to stop the murder of millions of people.