Al So we disagree...there is no defense issue for the US relative to Iraq.
We can all be thankful Gw is president, as the president cannot shirk his constitutional duty to protect the US. You say there is no connection, but how about OBL own tapes, in which he declares his fatwa is mainly about getting the US troops out of SA; put there in Aug 1990, after Saddam invaded Kuwait.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/edicts.html
August 23, 1996 Several months after being expelled from the Sudan, bin Laden issues his "Declaration of War Against the Americans Who Occupy the Land of the Two Holy Mosques." It reads, in part:
"Muslims burn with anger at America. For its own good, America should leave [Saudi Arabia.] ... There is no more important duty than pushing the American enemy out of the holy land. ... The presence of the USA Crusader military forces on land, sea and air of the states of the Islamic Gulf is the greatest danger threatening the largest oil reserve in the world. The existence of these forces in the area will provoke the people of the country and induces aggression on their religion, feelings and prides and pushes them to take up armed struggle against the invaders occupying the land. ... Due to the imbalance of power between our armed forces and the enemy forces, a suitable means of fighting must be adopted, i.e. using fast-moving, light forces that work under complete secrecy. In other words, to initiate a guerrilla war, where the sons of the nation, and not the military forces, take part in it."
There you have it. It is like a bank robber, who gets in a shooting match with the police, and a innocent bystander gets killed. Who is liable, even if the bystander was killed by an errant police bullet. Here is another speech.
February 22, 1998 Bin Laden issues an edict calling for attacks on all Americans, including civilians, and announces the creation of the International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders, in association with extremist groups from Egypt, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
The following quotations are taken from the edict, as translated by the Federation of American Scientists. (FAS). The edict's full text is available on their web site.
"For over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples."
"Despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once again trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation."
"We--with God's help--call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."
"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim."
read especially this part ,,"For over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples."
"Despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once again trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation."
Once again OBL blames the american troops in SA and the sanctions and no fly zones in Iraq for his jihad. Notice also OBL says for over seven yrs. and the date of his speech is Feb 22,1998; just over 7 yrs after Saddam invaded Iraq. Saddam was the trigger for OBL jihad. And you want to say we can keep up the controls and sanctions at no cost.
No one blamed the US in 1991, when that administration put together a consensus.
Surely you jest. I just showed you, OBL objected strenuously , and formed AL qaeda to carry out his objections. Also you liberals have been objecting, because Bush 41 didn't go to Bagdhad to finsih off the job; which we would have been able to do, if the UN would have let us.
They have denigrated the UN, treated it with contempt, have said a priori that the institution is practically irrelevant,
Unfortunately, the UN proved him right,. Some people rise to the occasion when challenged; the UN true to its form slunk into the gutter again, when challenged. Maybe its disgraceful episodes in Rawanda and Bosnia were too much to overcome.
underestimated the degree to which the UN is important to their political standing in their own nations.
That is true. Who would have thunk that France was so in love with such a failure.
The degree of incoherent and abysmal diplomacy is frankly shocking.
I agree, the diplomacy on both sides has been horrible. However, France's diplomacy has been more abysmal than US diplomacy. First off, the French should have picked a better time to make their, and the EU break from American influences. Like when one of the many trading disputes come up. Then France could have counted on all of the members of the EU, including the new europe members. Secondly, NATO has also been affected, and I really don't think most of the members want NATO affected just yet anyway. Thirdly, the US pay 30% of UN dues and provides most of its military support. Just who will take over the duties that fell to the US , when the US re adjusts its obligations commensurate to its voting power.
It is illegal to take military action against the UN charter.
HMMM I didn't know that it was in the US constitution, or there was a federal law which states that. Link please. Surly, you aren't saying the US must compromise our national security intersts because the UN said so. What if France had vetoed Afghanistan, would you say we shouldn't have gone. France was threatening to veto the Gulf war in 91. Are you saying we should have let Saddam take over Kuwait and Sa. Just exactly, what are you saying.
How? By saying that Iraq is not obeying the will of the UN and ignoring Israel for doing the same for years? By practically washing its hands of the Palestinian problem? We seem to have a selective ideas of what fairness is.
Ah yes. another reason the UN is impotent, Israel, and Palestine. Just think, if the US didn't pay most of the money and provide all of the muscle, the UN actually might have been able to do something about Israel. Why doesn't France send over their force de farce and straighten things out. Lets see; maybe because The wimps can't even defeat the old ladies Russin glee club, much less handle a small country like Israel. |
