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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JSwanson who wrote (68671)	3/14/2003 9:14:08 AM
From: E. T.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Fuque the French... Explosive messages for every war From Glen Owen and Michael Evans Our repoters with the 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing in the Gulf timesonline.co.uk THE message scrawled on the side of an American bunker-busting bomb being wheeled out into the desert was blunt: “Fuque the French” had been scrawled on the side by a member of the US Air Force. Painting war graffiti and taunts on bombs and shells is one of the great traditions of warfare. But normally it is the enemy that is the target for the abuse, not a Nato ally. However, senior American officers at this munitions plant in the desert — known colloquially as “Ammo country” — said the French gibe “crossed the line” of acceptability. “I don’t think that is necessary,” said Chief Edwards, the plant’s second in command. “France is still an ally.” But when the enemy is the target anything goes. In the First World War, the heaviest calibre artillery shells were often chalked with messages such as: “Present for the Kaiser”. It was not only the troops who chalked on the messages. Many bombs coming off the production lines at home were inscribed before going to war zones. Keith Miller, of the National Army Museum, said it was a tradition in every war. “The names have changed but the terms of abuse have remained as primitive as ever. It’s not a sophisticated art form.” In the Second World War it was common to see “Up yours, Adolf”. In the 1991 Gulf War, that was changed to “Up yours, Saddam”. In Vietnam, the Americans liked to use the slogan “Kilroy is here” — meaning simply that Kilroy, an archetypal American soldier, was everywhere, sorting out the world. The missiles that rained down on Taleban and al-Qaeda targets last year bore messages remembering the September 11 attacks. “I Love New York,” “Kill, kill, kill. This one’s for New York,” or, remembering the firefighters who died, simply: “FDNY”.

To: JSwanson who wrote (68671)	3/14/2003 10:00:30 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Thanks for bringing this up. I am not sure how much it contributes to the issue beyond convincing the reader that the French are now anti-American and should be viewed with suspicion. That much I agreed to when I said "this is coming from the French. So I am suspicious of their motives". But beyond this the author has nothing to say. What I really want to know is how credible is the evidence presented in these books (btw, the French are not the only ones, Robert Baer, an American wrote a book on the premise that the oil pipeline was the real reason for invasion of Afghanistan). Most importantly, I am interested to know to what extent it is possible that hard ball negotiations with the Taliban may have been a contributing factor to 9/11. > If there is anything missing in these books, it would be a discussion of the relationship between French Anglophobia and French anti-Americanism. Who cares! There is an old saying, "I'd rather have a knowledgeable enemy who makes fun of my weaknesses than a foolish friend who makes me feel I am invincible". I want to know if the facts they presented supports the conclusion and to what extent. BTW, I read an article the other day that pointed out yes we saved the French from Hitler, but without them America would not have existed in the first place; It was the French massive contributions and blockade of British ships that allowed the revolution to succeed. ST

To: JSwanson who wrote (68671)	3/14/2003 10:14:05 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

I forgot to say, there is one other thing in the article which is good and I agree with. the task is to manage pragmatically the resentments, irritations, and real grievances that inevitably accompany the rise to power of one nation, one culture, and one social model in a complex, divided, and passionate world. And to that end, the establishment of impartial and binding international tribunals will go a long way. One way or another it will happen. But for now it cannot happen without America. We can exert our greatest influence when we are doing it on our own now rather than doing it at a future time when there is no choice. Leadership is not arm twisting; it is finding out what the real needs are and setting the path to them. ST