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Politics : DON'T START THE WAR -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: HighTech who wrote (20858)3/14/2003 3:49:46 PM
From: Doug R  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 25898
 
1.) No weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq: Blix
February 15 2003

Chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix said today inspectors hadn't found any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

He cast doubt on evidence provided by US Secretary of State Colin Powell indicating Iraq may have cleaned up sites before inspectors arrived.

"In no case have we seen convincing evidence that the Iraqi side knew in advance that the inspectors were coming," Blix told the UN Security Council.

2.)"Please note: This disgraceful experiment ended just 25 years ago," said Dasbach. "This means the cold-blooded scientists who medically tortured the Tuskegee victims may still be employed by the government. The bureaucrats who administered this experiment may still have their jobs. The politicians who voted to fund this barbarous project may still be in office -- and getting paychecks from taxpayers.

"Why is there no effort being made to track down and punish the guilty bureaucrats and politicians? Why is there no public outcry? Why does no one seem to care that for 50 years, the federal government has routinely treated its citizens like laboratory rats?" he asked.

The underlying problem, said Dasbach, is that the Tuskegee experiments aren't the exception -- they're the rule.

"For five decades, the federal government has waged a war against its own citizens -- a war in the form of gruesome, secret medical experiments," he said. "Americans have not only been left to silently suffer from syphilis, but have also been injected with Plutonium 239, blistered with mustard gas, dosed with LSD, and sprayed with bacteria. And the victims of these experiments were usually the most vulnerable members of society: Poor African Americans, hospital patients -- and even mentally disabled children.

"It's time for the American people to cry out for justice. It's time for the guilty politicians and bureaucrats to be punished for these war crimes."

Not convinced? Just look at the list of medical atrocities the government has admitted to, said Dasbach.

* In March, the Department of Energy paid $6.5 million to the families of 17 individuals who were injected with plutonium and uranium in secret government Cold War-era experiments.

* In November 1996, Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary paid $4.8 million to the families of another 12 victims of government radioactivity experiments.

* As many as 20,000 other lawsuits have been filed against the federal government for secret biochemical experiments conducted from the 1940s to the 1960s.

* As many as 500,000 Americans were endangered by secret defense-related tests between 1940 and 1974 -- including covert experiments with radioactive materials, mustard gas, LSD, and biological agents, according to a Congressional subcommittee hearing in Washington, DC on September 28, 1994.

The US is not exactly lily white in regards to inflicting death and disease on its own people. Hard to preach from a pulpit painted with Tuskegee and the like.



To: HighTech who wrote (20858)3/14/2003 3:53:33 PM
From: CBurnett  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 25898
 
Anti-war crowd sides with Iraq. eom.



To: HighTech who wrote (20858)3/14/2003 6:45:22 PM
From: Doug R  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 25898
 
2) Withholding the key fact that destroys the moral underpinning of an argument (and, in Powell's case, reveals him to be a blood-drenched hypocrite):

'Iraq's weapons of mass destruction are controlled by a murderous tyrant, who [has already used chemical weapons to kill thousands of people.]' (Bush's October speech)

Comment: The problem here is that much of Bush's national-security team aided and abetted those crimes. After the worst attack, on Halabja in 1988 near the end of the Iran-Iraq war, the Reagan team covered for Saddam by implicating Iran, then prevented Congress from imposing tough sanctions on Iraq. Joost R. Hiltermann, an official with Human Rights Watch, shows in a recent column for the International Herald Tribune (http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0117-01.htm) that Saddam was likely emboldened to use ever more lethal concoctions to polish off the Kurds because he knew from past gassing experience in 1983, 1984 and 1987 that he could always count on the support of Reagan, Powell and George H. W. Bush. The latter?s son has yet to mention this in any of his righteous condemnations of Saddam. There are any number of governments who have the moral standing to condemn Saddam?s gassing of the Kurds. The one headed by George W. Bush does not.

Powell, of course, is the current administration's knight in shining armor, the trusted figure who commands the respect even of the European leaders who cannot stomach Bush. But give a listen to Peter W. Galbraith, former U.S. ambassador to Croatia and now professor of national-security studies at the National War College in Washington, D.C.:

'the Kurds have not forgotten that Secretary of State Colin Powell was then the national security adviser who orchestrated Ronald Reagan's decision to give Hussein a pass for gassing the Kurds.' boston.com



To: HighTech who wrote (20858)3/15/2003 2:08:33 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander  Respond to of 25898
 
<PRESIDENT BUSH: Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's welfare not on providing for the Iraqi people but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.>

How much is much, as well as mixing up spending time and money??

< And when I say to him you have used weapons of mass destruction before, we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again. (Applause) >

Who is him, probably Saddamm, but then who is "you"?? as well as "we"?? Same "you" again as the first
one, and then "them"?? the capacities, WMDs or just a general "them"??

<PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, the United States does not relish moving alone, because we live in a world that is increasingly interdependent.>

Yes, alone war on terrorism, or interdependent production of faked papers??

< We would like to be partners with other people.>

Yes, that is why Bush understood that in the war on other people and his own terrorism, it
was smart to go through the gates of UN on UNESCO knees.

<But sometimes we have to be prepared to move alone.>

Dude, you can't have it both ways, even if it would be like a dream

< You used the anthrax example.>

"you"?? Ames??

<Think how many can be killed by just a tiny bit of anthrax, and think about how it's not just that
Saddam Hussein might put it on a Scud missile, an anthrax head, and send it on to some city
he wants to destroy.>

Yes, or just in the mail like a regular dude.

<Think about all the other terrorists and other bad actors>

Reagan was a semi-good actor, but he too got into bad companion, although he did not shake
hands with Saddam on photographs, he left it to others.

<who could just parade through Baghdad and pick up their stores>

Exactly, lots of bad actors who would like to parade through Baghdad, although that is
not exactly where the oilfields are.

< if we don't take action.>

Yes, 400 billion barrels out of 1,000 worldwide billion barrels is something to take action for, especially
when considering how the cost increases, especially after the stage the USA barrels are, close
to cost $40-60/barrel... ouch, tough to suck out those last drops.

< I far prefer the United Nations, I far prefer the inspectors,>

pefer in terms of what, and until what??

< I have been far from trigger-happy on this thing,>

Yes, my dad told me it takes 0.5-0.75 year to move military stuff around and this time there
was no Glasspie around

< but if they>

Who they??

<really believe that there are no circumstances under which we would act alone, they are sadly mistaken.>

As well as who-we?? mistaken about what??

<That is not a threat.>

So what is the use of mentioning it>>

< I have shown I do not relish this thing.>

What thing??

< Every time it's discussed around here,>

And now that "it", is "it" or isn't "it" "it", or them, we or you??

<I say>
Finally, this time everyone knows who says

<one of the great luxuries of being the world's only superpower for a while>

Ouch, the hubbart point for the next difficult time to suck domestic oil is closer and closer??

Or, "who is", actually???

< -- and it won't last forever probably, but for a while>

True, major crises as all those hearings on energy costs have shown.

< -- is that there is always time enough to kill.>

Killing time seem to be fairly inefficient whn there so much else to kill.

< And therefore we have a moral responsibility to show restraint and to seek partnerships and
alliances, and I've done that.>

Great ending, clearly defined who did it, but responsibility for what?? and how, and what then??

< But I don't have to explain to my grandchildren why we took a powder on what we think is a very serious biologica and chemical weapons programs potentially by a country that has already used chemical weapons on the Iranians and on the Kurds, their own people. >

Great powder joke, don't sneeze too much, watch out for that pretzel..

I think Hammond is funnier

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