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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Joe NYC who wrote (164327)	3/15/2003 3:14:45 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1573891

Iran Iraq war: . Because both Iran and Iraq used irregular military units, attacked civilian populations, and played down their own losses while playing up those of their opponents, reliable casualty figures do not exist. For example, Iran claimed to have lost 200,000 or fewer of its own citizens, while Iraq claimed to have killed 800,000 Iranians. Neutral estimates come closer to the Iranian claim but are uncertain. Because of different battlefield techniques, Iraq's deaths were probably about half those suffered by Iran. The total number of people killed almost certainly exceeds 300,000. geocities.com; Yes, this is one of the links I provided. The total number exceeds 300k for both sides. Even if you do figure in both sides, the total is still less than 500k; nowhere near the millions D. Ray and others have claimed. No one is sure of the total casualties during the Iran-Iraq war, but estimates range from 500,000 to 1 million dead, 1-2 million wounded, and more than 80,000 prisoners. idf.il; This is still another link that I saw......I discounted it because it was much higher than other links. Please note the comment...."No one is sure". In later analyses of the losses of that war, that comment has been noted and the totals reduced considerably. It is estimated that Iraq suffered 375,000 casualties during the war. us-israel.org; Your links are mixed up......the commentary doesn't correspond with the link. Gulf War: - An estimated 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died during Operation Desert Storm between January 17, 1991 and February 28, 1991 (Source: News Reports). Gulf war plus post war - More than 1,200,000 civilians in Iraq have died since the start of the Gulf War, when Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990 (Source: United Nations and Iraq). Yes, and look at one of the two sources of that info.........Saddam/Iraq. The UN came up with 500k and I bet Saddam inflated all his numbers to a million....its what he does best. http://www.geocities.com/persian_gulf_wars_2/gulf_war2_cost.html Saddam's war against his own people 1987-1988 Saddam launches the Anfal campaign against the Kurds, in which some 180,000 "disappear." 4,000 villages are razed. Depopulation of large areas of eastern Kurdistan. iraqfoundation.org; Yeah, 180k "disappeared".......then went to Turkey. Check out all the complaints from Turkey regarding the Kurd refugee problem. Why do you think they were so demanding regarding current negotiations for aid. The refugee problem sank Turkey's economy for several years. Do a google search on that one. Ted, I don't think my estimates were off mark or an exaggeration. Joe, I did the same google searches as you did. I looked at the claims from all sides. You've omitted those links from very creditable sources that put the Iraqi/Iran war dead to be less than 500k. The high numbers for the disappearing Kurds can be attributable to numbers provided by the Kurds who obviously have an axe to grind. And you fail to bring into the picture the PNF which is the paramilitary unit formed by the Kurds and has been fighting Saddam and the Turkish gov't. What do you think prompted the Turks killing 40k Kurds over the past 15-20 years. This is a huge problem that is being given short shrift by Bush and others. We Americans know little of the problems and local feuds over there......many have never even heard of the Kurds, let alone know they number over 23 million people and have been fighting for their independence from Turkey, Iraqa and Iran, and probably Syria for decades now. Once again we are stepping into a major hornet's nest in a neighborhood we can't possibly understand, and our leaders like us to be in the dark so that they can tell us whatever they want. And what makes it worse is that Saddam is so stupid and so prone to exaggerations that he has played right into the fears promulgated by the hawks. Is Saddam an asshole? Yes but no worse than his neighbors. In other words.........Its the neighborhood, stupid, not just the man. Here are some other links: A listing of the worst genocides of the 20th century: scaruffi.com Please not that Milosevic is well above Saddam in totals. Here's another one.........Mass Crimes against Humanity: religioustolerance.org Saddam didn't even make the cut. Interesting article which tries to present what's happened in Iraq with some objectivity. Again Saddam is no saint but then he's not the devil that some portray. xs4all.nl A Kurdish American prospective: kurdistan.org ted