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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: SOROS who wrote (14755)3/17/2003 1:14:29 AM
From: Sully-  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
Yes, most recent polls show the majority of people are
behind President Bush & that majority continues to
increase. And I agree that Scott & his peers are posting
their vile rubbish & slanderous, deceitful, hate filled
political propaganda mostly to other faithful hate mongers.
On the other hand, the clearly unethical conduct of Scott &
his peers (including certain Senators & Congressmen acting
quite similarly) may be backfiring as more & more folks
become aware of what these folks are really trying to do.

I'll freely admit that I have this thing about folks who
have no problem using lies, deceit & blatant distortions
while falsely claiming they stand for some altruistic
thing, when in reality, they actually have ulterior motives
that will never admit is the real reason for what they do.
In this case these folks are using any means necessary in
the hopes that it brings harm to the Bush Administration &
the Republican party in order for their party to regain the
White House as well as a majority in the Senate & the
House. It never was about peace, diplomacy, any
humanitarian reasons, fear of increased terrorism, economic
or any other legitimate reason. Besides, if any of those
reasons were legitimate, they wouldn't have to resort to
lies, deceit, revisionist history & fantasy land conspiracy
theories as the centerpiece of their relentless assaults.

Sadly Scott & far too many others are like Saddam in one
respect. Even when exposed as relentless liars, they just
move on to the next set of lies as if nothing ever happened.

Just my 2¢



To: SOROS who wrote (14755)3/17/2003 1:16:14 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
Dubious claims erode US credibility

By John Donnelly and Elizabeth Neuffer
Boston Globe Staff
3/16/2003

WASHINGTON -- Questionable US and British intelligence assertions about purported Iraqi weapons of mass destruction have undercut the Bush administration's credibility in building a case before the UN Security Council, according to analysts and some diplomats.



The most serious blunder, put forth by British intelligence and cited by President Bush in his State of the Union address, involved an assertion that Niger, the West African country, had sold tons of uranium to Iraq. The Central Intelligence Agency, as well as Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, acknowledged late last week that the documents were forged, six days after top UN nuclear weapons inspector, Mohamed ElBaradei, said his team had found the documents to lack authenticity.

Senator John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, asked the FBI on Friday to investigate whether the US government had been involved in the creation of the Niger documents to build support for administration policies. An investigation, Rockefeller said in a letter to the FBI director, Robert S. Mueller III, should ''at a minimum help to allay any concerns.'' Powell has denied any US involvement.

But other US charges -- on Iraq's use of aluminum tubes for a nuclear program, drones that might be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons, mobile biological labs, and chemical bunkers -- have come under sharp attack among UN officials or diplomats. In addition, Bush's report of a poison plant in northeast Iraq was found by numerous reporters visiting the site to have been a dilapidated collection of buildings.

At the Security Council, some are questioning the veracity of any US claim regarding Iraq.

''When you hear anything that Iraq is not cooperating, I suggest you double-check it,'' said Russia's ambassador to the United Nations, Sergei Lavrov.

Doubt about US interpretations of intelligence is one of the reasons that Security Council members have been clamoring for a set of ''benchmarks,'' or tests, by which to measure Iraqi disarmament, diplomats say.

Two US officials, however, defended in interviews the government's claims that Iraq was busily building secret programs for chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. On the discredited Iraq-Niger uranium connection, one senior US official said the CIA never fully trusted the report, which was given to the United States and Britain by an agency from an unidentified third country.

And the officials could not explain why Bush said on Jan. 28, ''The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.''

In his next sentence in the State of the Union address, Bush made another assertion since disputed: ''Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.''

ElBaradei says his teams have found no evidence that those tubes were used for anything but missile production.

Still, a US official said, speaking on condition of anonymity: ''Those points individually, even if all true, fall far short of exonerating the Iraqi regime. We have reams and reams of documents on unaccounted-for biological or chemical materials.

''There's still the regime's defiance of 17 UN resolutions, its brutal treatment of its people, its threatening posture toward its neighbors -- all of it still stands,'' the US aide said. But former US military and intelligence officials say the challenged US claims have hurt the administration's case. The analysts said the administration probably pushed forward some unproven intelligence because of public pressure to make its case.

''They want it too badly,'' said Jay C. Farrar, a former senior Pentagon and National Security Council official. '' `Intel' is not evidence. Intel is information, and it's information that is the best available. But it is not foolproof.''

Patrick G. Eddington, a CIA analyst on Iraq in the 1990s, said the United States may be depending too much on the word of senior Iraqi defectors. He said the Niger claim was the most damaging. ''It looks like they are trying to set up Iraq,'' he said. ''I think there is enough information there to make their case. You never need to embellish.

''I think it's a matter of the administration's desperation to make some kind of a case.''

Four other allegations have been questioned, including the following:

US officials said that in his report of March 7, the UN weapons chief, Hans Blix, should have emphasized the discovery of a drone aircraft that the United States says could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons. On Wednesday Iraqi officials wheeled out a drone that a reporter said was ''more like a large school science project than a vehicle capable of delivering chemical and biological weapons.''

A US official, however, said that the drone represented only ''what the Iraqis chose to show.'' Previous UN weapons inspectors, the official said, had discovered drones that might possibly fly for up to 300 miles.

In his March 7 report, Blix rebutted Bush administration assertions on mobile biological labs. ''Several inspections have taken place at declared and undeclared sites in relation to mobile production facilities,'' he wrote. ''No evidence of proscribed activities have so far been found.''

But the US official said that mobile labs, by definition, would be difficult to find. ''We have first-hand descriptions of these small factories,'' the official said.

On underground laboratories, Blix said: ''Inspection teams have examined building structures for any possible underground facilities. In addition, ground-penetrating radar equipment was used in several specific locations. No underground facilities for chemical or biological production or storage were found so far.''

The US official again cited first-hand reports: ''Can anybody be confident that anyone would find an underground lab?''

Powell, in his presentation to the council on Feb. 5, offered several satellite images that he said showed decontamination trucks outside alleged munitions plants. Blix, in oral testimony to the Security Council, expressed doubt.

''We have noted that the two satellite images of the site were taken several weeks apart,'' Powell said. ''The reported movement of munitions at the site could just as easily have been a routine activity as a movement of proscribed munitions in anticipation of imminent inspection.''

There is a key difference between intelligences services and UN inspectors, Blix said: ''Governments have many sources of information that are not available to inspectors. Inspectors, for their part, must base their reports only on evidence, which they can, themselves, examine and present publicly.''

He then added, pointedly, ''Without evidence, confidence cannot arise.''
_______________________________________

Donnelly reported from Washington, Neuffer from the United Nations. Donnelly can be reached at donnelly@globe.com

© Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.

boston.com



To: SOROS who wrote (14755)3/17/2003 8:09:38 AM
From: Clappy  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
No matter what opinions are of the talking liberals, don't most polls show that the majority of Americans are behind the President?

Since when did the right wing care about what the majority
wanted. I thought that stopped during the last election...<g><ng>



To: SOROS who wrote (14755)3/17/2003 2:31:23 PM
From: lurqer  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 89467
 
Perhaps out of pique Soros sees this thread as Scott’s Political Debate Porch. Scott has said he doesn’t think of it that way. It may just be wishful thinking, but I agree with Scott. I like the idea of a board where many things can be discussed. It’s not that focused boards are inappropriate, it’s just that insight into some matters can only obtained by examining the interrelationships. Few would argue that politics has no effect on the market, but for many market boards, politics is O.T. – and for a reason. Given that this board is a descendent of the ole Porch, and given that the ole Porch, at it’s best, accommodated a broad spectrum of opinion, I plan on continuing to discuss here not only politics, but stocks, bonds, gold and whatever else seems that it may be of interest. For many, I’m sure it will be just so much blah, blah. So be it.

lurqer