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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: FaultLine who wrote (83208)	3/18/2003 1:25:56 AM
From: spiral3	Respond to of 281500

Hi fl, I was in my regular deli this evening buying some bread, – it was hysterical, the Egyptian customer was pointing at his Syrian friend and laughing, “you’re next” he said with glee, no the Syrian says pointing to my Iranian friend, “you’re next” he retorts, Abdooreza the Iranian laughs and points to the Korean proprietor, “no! - you’re next” he counters, the proprietor drops the smile from his face as he spots the Hassidic guy buying a cup of coffee, f*ck it I thought - I could see all the other customers thinking…we’re all next.. There is something awfully smelly about the notion that France ‘supports’ Saddam and about this whole French x American thing, and it has to do with a fundamental difference with the way Muslims are perceived, treated, and integrated in both countries.

To: FaultLine who wrote (83208)	3/18/2003 4:40:31 AM
From: NightOwl	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

This war crowns a period of terrible diplomatic failure, Washington's worst in at least a generation. The Bush administration now presides over unprecedented American military might. What it risks squandering is not America's power, but an essential part of its glory. exactly the way I feel. --fl I "think" I understand what you are saying here FL. But I'm not at all sure that I understand the standard by which this "failure" is being judged. Am I correct that the feeling stems largely from the unprecedented level of "popular" opposition to current US policy outside this country? If so I think it a little harsh. If I think of US policy - internal and external - since 1865 it appears fairly consistent, ...as national policies go. <g> Indeed, if anything it's become a great deal more "alien" friendly at the surface, if not at the bottom line. <vbg> That is to say, we do "allow" competition to those who want to play our game. ...We may be criticized for stacking the deck here or there. But by and large we let other "houses" run their own "games" without fear of our "bouncers," so long as they "contain" themselves. Frankly, I don't know what you expect a respectable diplomat to do? In a world wherein there are far more "losers" than "winners" and in which each day's "house take" is broadcast around the globe faster than it can be delivered to the bank? It seems to me that you are guaranteed an ever increasing spiral of demand for better odds at your tables. Demands which in fact cannot be deflected by "diplomatic" PR alone. In an age of instant information, most "losers" can "do the math." And for those who can't, the "competition's PR assures that news of their mounting losses is distributed fast enough. Lucille Ball and Jerry Lewis did a passable job keeping the patrons "entertained" for years. ...But today our diplomats only have Chris Rock and Homer Simpson to work with! <Hoo> Think of OBL/Hussein as an "ALIEN" merger of Ralph Nader and Huey Newton. The former completely unrestrained and unconfined by the latter's cultural norms and inhibitions [ed., yes they had inhibitions that OBL never conceived of]. Is there some reason to believe that mere diplomacy could, or should, be able to bring them back to the tables for another hand? I am not so sure. ...I guess if you can get hundreds of millions to buy into a seven day creation story, getting a few million foreign "players" to sign on to take care of the OBL and Husseins of the world for "US, Inc" should at least be within the realm of possibility. <vbg> But if you expect to find such wondrous diplomats, ...I'd suggest looking in Hollywood rather than DC. <Hoo> 0\|0