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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: paul_philp who wrote (83471)	3/18/2003 5:01:50 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I am doing to Jacques Ellul what I understand Schumpeter did to Marx. Modest guy. In my field, the word would have been what Max Weber did to Marx. Ellul is a fascinating figure but his aversion for technology as a system was not my cup of tea. I would read and read some more and finally find myself reading because I should. William Barrett had an interesting book, The illusion of technique : a search for meaning in a technological civilization in which he tried to pull a great deal of these arguments together. No doubt you are familiar with it. If not, I recommend it. Because (a) he was a bright guy particularly as an interpreter of other's thoughts and (b) he writes (edit--wrote) very clearly. I don't see us tyring to implant it by force, I see us removing an obstacle to the C/D/T system by force. I can certainly see that argument but I think it's a likely to be a distinction without a difference. The short version of where I am at the moment is that the effort to establish public order is likely to take a good long time--revenge seeking, ethnic conflict, anger at the Americans, etc. No doubt the Bush folk will try to do a two track system of establishing order and rebuilding at the same time. But I don't think much of the latter can be done until the former is done. And that former will require, at least in American eyes, top down control. And, once in place, it's almost impossible to start over. Plus, just to be provocative, the US has a cultural preference for it. In, among other places, potentially anarchic states. We need to undermine the moral authority of strong Wahhabism. We also need to nourish and protect the emerging Islamic C/D/T systems in Turkey, Jordan, Qatar and Morroco. I not only have no quarrel with that but agree, with enthusiasm. There are better ways, however. And this way, the way of military force, has the opposite effect. It will definitely strengthen Wahhabism in the short term and who knows about the long term. Once again, the old Keynes quote applies. As for Turkey, et al, the short term is most likely to be increased vulnerability to serious turbulence. Again, long term. Who knows. If I were in charge, I would take care of the Palestinian-Israeli situation first in such a way that a viable, secular state emerged. (Incidentally, I suggest, once again, reading The New Yorker piece on Bandar. Simultaneously, I would try to do the same for Afghanistan. And, simultaneously, walking, chewing gum, and talking at the same time, work on multilateral ways to address nuclear proliferation. Then, having played god, I would take a day off.