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To: i-node who wrote (164807)3/18/2003 10:58:12 PM
From: Joe NYC  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573428
 
France and Germany are left to wonder: Did they carry things too far?
John Vinocur International Herald Tribune Wednesday, March 19, 2003
PARIS In the end, beyond the maneuvering, the rhetoric, the professed convictions, there are questions now in Paris and Berlin about whether their opposition to an American-led war on Iraq has gotten a bit out of hand.
.
In Berlin, a reporter talking to a German official heard that the Schroeder government initially believed Iraq was a one-issue crisis, narrowly confinable to disagreement on the military undertaking and the painful although surmountable problem (in the middle term) of Germany's nonparticipation.
.
But reacting in fear of isolation, the official suggested, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer's willingness to subordinate Germany to a French view of confrontation with the United States on many wider fronts has brought the government to a position it now finds an awkward fit with Germany's long-term interests, outside the two men's realm of when they ran for re-election on a pacifist platform last September.
.
In very less specific terms, this notion of things having gone too far appeared to suffuse remarks on Monday by Fischer that American policy was absolutely nonimperial in nature, that the United States was the irreplacable element of global and regional security, that there was no alternative to good trans-Atlantic relationships and that he well understood how the new East European membership of the European Union could have a "very different view" of their security than this or that EU founding member.
.
Even in normal, less electric times, this was a vision France could not sustain. If part of it also suggested that Germany's existential need for smooth relations with Eastern Europe was whipsawed by President Jacques Chirac's warning to the EU's new members that he required them to choose current French and German global policy over that of the Americans, then it also complemented concerns in Paris that Chirac's Brezhnev-style blunder - explained away here as hearty Chiraquian straight-talk - was one among many.
.
These concerns have made for the first real breach in the French media's amen chorus that has punctuated their president's breakaway run since January from the last half-century's Western notions of international order.
.
For the first time, French publications, reporting on the disarray of political analysts, are now asking: Who are we against, Saddam or Bush? Or: Where was the sense in Chirac's promising a veto of a new UN resolution when such a gesture was not an absolute necessity? And even: How did France manage to reject British revisions to its draft resolution last week hours before Iraq did?
.
"Have They Gone Overboard?" this week's cover-story in Le Point, a center-right newsmagazine, wondered over a picture of Chirac and Foreign Minister Dominic de Villepin. Its lead editorial's response was mostly yes, noting viperishly that France was rather good at accommodating itself to any detestable status quo. But that hardly signaled some kind of special unease, no more than the middle-ground financial daily La Tribune did in saying Tuesday that France would pay dearly for its gratuitous threat of a veto.
.
Instead, the notion that a botch may well be at hand for France came in a well-researched article in the current issue of the left-populist magazine Marianne, normally a font of anti-American tweaks and bellows, which analyzed recent French diplomacy under the title, "Visionary Policy or Operetta-Style Gaullism?"
.
It said France always sought if possible to propel its own policies with a European motor but found that its disagreement these days with many of the EU's members and candidates about the French desire for a Europe defined by its opposition to America eliminated any hope of a common policy.
.
Quoting Aymeric Chauprade, who teaches geopolitics at the French War College, the article told of his criticism of France's resistance to American "domination" as piecemeal, without any overall plan, and judging its flirt with Russia and China at the United Nations as old stuff and without basic effect on Moscow and Beijing, whose ties with America are priorities for them.
.
"As for Germany," Chauprade said, "if it changed its line (from its present stance), it could return to its role within American strategy. Not France."
.
Philippe Raynaud, a political scientist, was asked by the magazine if France over the long haul could sustain the position that had brought Chirac so much international media attention and public relations success over the last months. "We don't have the moral incentive, or the necessary elites," he replied. "At the top level, our diplomacy asserts a will for independence. On a daily basis, everybody accepts French decline."
.
There were other, more palpable aspects of French policy that caused discomfort among the French. Therese Delpech, a Frenchwoman who is director of strategic affairs at the United Nations Atomic Energy Commission and a commissioner in charge of Iraqi affairs for the UN's control, verification and inspection commission, pointed to a French dilemma if American or British troops were felled by Iraqi chemical or biological arms.
.
"In a case like that, it will be very difficult (for France) not to participate," she said. "You've got to look (the situation) straight in the eye. If chemical weapons are used against American or British troops, that's really going to be very difficult."
.
De Villepin referred to the issue Monday, telling a radio interviewer that in those circumstances, France would be alongside what he called "its precious friends." When an American official in Washington was asked if knew of such a contingency, he said no and called the French gesture "meaningless."
.
Germany could have a problem within a vaguely similar context. The present government has consistently repeated its commitment to the existence of the state of Israel. But its reaction in the event of an Iraqi attack on Israel with weapons of mass destruction is unknown. Saddam Hussein's missiles armed with conventional warheads hit Israel during the first Gulf War.
.
Alongside the question of whether France and Germany, each in its specific way, have moved into problematic or unsustainable positions through the Iraq confrontation is the considerable distance between the two government's political realities.
.
Fischer could obviously not have been speaking for France when he told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung on Monday "that when I look at the 21st century world, I see no basic change in the interests of North America and Europe." He insisted there was no breakdown in trans-Atlantic relations and that he wished a strategic debate had taken place after the Sept. 11 attacks that might have led to a new clarity that he is sure will come eventually.
.
But the daily politics of both countries are perhaps more determinant. Each faces great economic difficulties, but Chirac is screened from public anger by the protective institutional layer of a prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, whose approval ratings are in rapid decline.
.
Schroeder, described this week by Der Spiegel magazine as "the uncourageous chancellor" because of what it said was the meekness of his new economic reforms, benefits from none of the unanimity of support that buoys Chirac. If he were to run now for chancellor, Schroeder's Social Democratic Party would have about 25 percent backing, polls say, compared to about 50 percent for the Christian Democratic opposition. The CDU leadership states it would have signed the letter of eight EU countries rejecting the French-German position on Iraq and would have backed Britain's second UN resolution that France promised to veto.
.
In this environment, the United States does not regard Germany lost as an ally, but as a country that might actively seek rapprochement at some point after the conclusion of an intervention in Iraq.
.
In the case of France, however, Chirac, with more than four years to go on his presidential term, has taken a posture in relation to both the domestic political landscape and the international scene that provides little obvious mobility short of self-ridicule.
.
In the sense of the French having brazenly overreached, while the Germans were stuck holding on to Chirac's shirttail, that has some of Germany's foreign policy professionals regarding the circumstances with irony and tinges of regret. Whatever Fischer says, theirs is a Germany that could come out of the war with deteriorated relations with America, tarnished ones with an Eastern Europe it did not quickly raise its voice to defend and ties well short of full confidence with France.
.
For the French, the regrets may not yet be full blown. But what is moldering now is a parallel sense of France's having eaten up all its room for maneuver, and all the potential of its star-turn in the run-up to the war through an excess, in the words of a German official, of the French "prestige imperative."
.
It is this possible miscalculation that is jogging those few French critics publicly asking if their country has overplayed its hand.

< < Back to Start of Article PARIS In the end, beyond the maneuvering, the rhetoric, the professed convictions, there are questions now in Paris and Berlin about whether their opposition to an American-led war on Iraq has gotten a bit out of hand.
.
In Berlin, a reporter talking to a German official heard that the Schroeder government initially believed Iraq was a one-issue crisis, narrowly confinable to disagreement on the military undertaking and the painful although surmountable problem (in the middle term) of Germany's nonparticipation.
.
But reacting in fear of isolation, the official suggested, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer's willingness to subordinate Germany to a French view of confrontation with the United States on many wider fronts has brought the government to a position it now finds an awkward fit with Germany's long-term interests, outside the two men's realm of when they ran for re-election on a pacifist platform last September.
.
In very less specific terms, this notion of things having gone too far appeared to suffuse remarks on Monday by Fischer that American policy was absolutely nonimperial in nature, that the United States was the irreplacable element of global and regional security, that there was no alternative to good trans-Atlantic relationships and that he well understood how the new East European membership of the European Union could have a "very different view" of their security than this or that EU founding member.
.
Even in normal, less electric times, this was a vision France could not sustain. If part of it also suggested that Germany's existential need for smooth relations with Eastern Europe was whipsawed by President Jacques Chirac's warning to the EU's new members that he required them to choose current French and German global policy over that of the Americans, then it also complemented concerns in Paris that Chirac's Brezhnev-style blunder - explained away here as hearty Chiraquian straight-talk - was one among many.
.
These concerns have made for the first real breach in the French media's amen chorus that has punctuated their president's breakaway run since January from the last half-century's Western notions of international order.
.
For the first time, French publications, reporting on the disarray of political analysts, are now asking: Who are we against, Saddam or Bush? Or: Where was the sense in Chirac's promising a veto of a new UN resolution when such a gesture was not an absolute necessity? And even: How did France manage to reject British revisions to its draft resolution last week hours before Iraq did?
.
"Have They Gone Overboard?" this week's cover-story in Le Point, a center-right newsmagazine, wondered over a picture of Chirac and Foreign Minister Dominic de Villepin. Its lead editorial's response was mostly yes, noting viperishly that France was rather good at accommodating itself to any detestable status quo. But that hardly signaled some kind of special unease, no more than the middle-ground financial daily La Tribune did in saying Tuesday that France would pay dearly for its gratuitous threat of a veto.
.
Instead, the notion that a botch may well be at hand for France came in a well-researched article in the current issue of the left-populist magazine Marianne, normally a font of anti-American tweaks and bellows, which analyzed recent French diplomacy under the title, "Visionary Policy or Operetta-Style Gaullism?"
.
It said France always sought if possible to propel its own policies with a European motor but found that its disagreement these days with many of the EU's members and candidates about the French desire for a Europe defined by its opposition to America eliminated any hope of a common policy.
.
Quoting Aymeric Chauprade, who teaches geopolitics at the French War College, the article told of his criticism of France's resistance to American "domination" as piecemeal, without any overall plan, and judging its flirt with Russia and China at the United Nations as old stuff and without basic effect on Moscow and Beijing, whose ties with America are priorities for them.
.
"As for Germany," Chauprade said, "if it changed its line (from its present stance), it could return to its role within American strategy. Not France."
.
Philippe Raynaud, a political scientist, was asked by the magazine if France over the long haul could sustain the position that had brought Chirac so much international media attention and public relations success over the last months. "We don't have the moral incentive, or the necessary elites," he replied. "At the top level, our diplomacy asserts a will for independence. On a daily basis, everybody accepts French decline."
.
There were other, more palpable aspects of French policy that caused discomfort among the French. Therese Delpech, a Frenchwoman who is director of strategic affairs at the United Nations Atomic Energy Commission and a commissioner in charge of Iraqi affairs for the UN's control, verification and inspection commission, pointed to a French dilemma if American or British troops were felled by Iraqi chemical or biological arms.
.
"In a case like that, it will be very difficult (for France) not to participate," she said. "You've got to look (the situation) straight in the eye. If chemical weapons are used against American or British troops, that's really going to be very difficult."
.
De Villepin referred to the issue Monday, telling a radio interviewer that in those circumstances, France would be alongside what he called "its precious friends." When an American official in Washington was asked if knew of such a contingency, he said no and called the French gesture "meaningless."
.
Germany could have a problem within a vaguely similar context. The present government has consistently repeated its commitment to the existence of the state of Israel. But its reaction in the event of an Iraqi attack on Israel with weapons of mass destruction is unknown. Saddam Hussein's missiles armed with conventional warheads hit Israel during the first Gulf War.
.
Alongside the question of whether France and Germany, each in its specific way, have moved into problematic or unsustainable positions through the Iraq confrontation is the considerable distance between the two government's political realities.
.
Fischer could obviously not have been speaking for France when he told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung on Monday "that when I look at the 21st century world, I see no basic change in the interests of North America and Europe." He insisted there was no breakdown in trans-Atlantic relations and that he wished a strategic debate had taken place after the Sept. 11 attacks that might have led to a new clarity that he is sure will come eventually.
.
But the daily politics of both countries are perhaps more determinant. Each faces great economic difficulties, but Chirac is screened from public anger by the protective institutional layer of a prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, whose approval ratings are in rapid decline.
.
Schroeder, described this week by Der Spiegel magazine as "the uncourageous chancellor" because of what it said was the meekness of his new economic reforms, benefits from none of the unanimity of support that buoys Chirac. If he were to run now for chancellor, Schroeder's Social Democratic Party would have about 25 percent backing, polls say, compared to about 50 percent for the Christian Democratic opposition. The CDU leadership states it would have signed the letter of eight EU countries rejecting the French-German position on Iraq and would have backed Britain's second UN resolution that France promised to veto.
.
In this environment, the United States does not regard Germany lost as an ally, but as a country that might actively seek rapprochement at some point after the conclusion of an intervention in Iraq.
.
In the case of France, however, Chirac, with more than four years to go on his presidential term, has taken a posture in relation to both the domestic political landscape and the international scene that provides little obvious mobility short of self-ridicule.
.
In the sense of the French having brazenly overreached, while the Germans were stuck holding on to Chirac's shirttail, that has some of Germany's foreign policy professionals regarding the circumstances with irony and tinges of regret. Whatever Fischer says, theirs is a Germany that could come out of the war with deteriorated relations with America, tarnished ones with an Eastern Europe it did not quickly raise its voice to defend and ties well short of full confidence with France.
.
For the French, the regrets may not yet be full blown. But what is moldering now is a parallel sense of France's having eaten up all its room for maneuver, and all the potential of its star-turn in the run-up to the war through an excess, in the words of a German official, of the French "prestige imperative."
.
It is this possible miscalculation that is jogging those few French critics publicly asking if their country has overplayed its hand.
iht.com



To: i-node who wrote (164807)3/18/2003 11:01:33 PM
From: tejek  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573428
 
Oh, you have been so right about how masterful conservatives are........I just was going over the coalition of nations. How could I have ever doubted Bush.

I mean he managed to pull in Azerbaijian and Uzbekistan; that's simply brilliant; and he also got El Savador and Nicaragua to go along.......my God, what a coup......never in a million years would have I guessed he could pull that one off; and then there's the three Baltic nations.......I understand the Lithuania army is huge, massive and so well equipped, they put the US Army to shame, but the coup de gra is Eritrea.......I don't know where the country is....probably some island in the Pacific that won't be around in ten years thanks to global warming; however, I know it took extraordinary diplomatic skills to get them on board.

What a fukking joke! This is the best the GOP can do? My God, I can't believe the time I've spent on this thread listening to you wax on about the brilliance of conservatives and the stupidity of liberals. What did you say your IQ was? By chance, did you have the read out tipped upside down and the real number is 041?

Don't even think about telling me how ridiculous Clinton was........he was a genius compared to this crap. And this administration is taking us into war........God help us!

ted

_______________________________________________________

thescotsman.co.uk

US claims 30 nations join coalition of the willing

PAUL GALLAGHER

AUSTRALIA and Poland pledged to join the invasion of Iraq yesterday as divisions deepened in the international community over imminent conflict in the Gulf.

With war a matter of hours away, political leaders across the globe clamoured to declare their stance on the crisis.

The United States claimed there were 30 nations signed up to the "coalition of the willing" that were prepared to use military force against Iraq and a further 15 who broadly support the US and British stance.

The French president, Jacques Chirac continued to lead international condemnation of military action, saying it would represent the "use of force over law". However, the French ambassador in Washington, later said that France would enter a war against Iraq if Saddam Hussein used biological or chemical weapons against the US-led invasion force.

Germany, Russia, China and Indonesia also issued statements opposing the ultimatum from President George Bush to Saddam, requiring him to leave Iraq by tonight or face removal by force.

The announcement that Australia is to commit its 2,000 troops in the Gulf area to action in Iraq came after President Bush contacted the Australian prime minister, John Howard.

Mr Howard, who faces strong anti-war opposition within his country, said: "I believe very strongly the position the government has taken is right."

His intervention means that almost the entire 257,000-strong military force set to invade Iraq will come from the three English-speaking nations - the US, Britain and Australia.

Poland said yesterday that it would provide soldiers for the conflict but it will contribute only a token 200 troops.

In contrast, the invading force assembled for the Gulf conflict in 1991 was made up of troops and personnel from 28 nations, including France and Syria.

Despite the narrow base of military support, Colin Powell, the US Secretary of State, said yesterday that more nations were providing other means of support.

The "coalition of the willing" includes five Eastern European nations that have agreed to send non-combat specialists in chemical and biological warfare to support the troops in the Gulf and more than a dozen other countries that have allowed US warplanes to use their airspace or territories to launch an attack.

Mr Powell said the foreign ministers of Denmark and the Netherlands had given their backing to an attack on Iraq. Denmark is considering the deployment of a small number of military support staff to the Gulf.

Turkey was also among the 30 states named in the coalition list issued by the US State Department. The US still hopes that Turkey will allow its territory to be used by troops for an invasion of northern Iraq.

Japan has declared itself a "post conflict" member of the coalition. It is not permitted by its own constitution to join any military action but backs its aims. "It was a decision that had to be made," the prime minister, Junichiro Koizumi, said. "We support the US position."

Despite the late additions to the alliance against Iraq, the military action will go ahead in the face of formidable international opposition.

President Chirac, whose threat to wield the French veto was blamed by Britain and the US for scuppering the chances of a United Nations settlement, restated his objections yesterday. "I am deeply moved by the fact that I know my attitude is shared by the overwhelming majority of our people, and also by the majority of the UN security council and the world’s peoples", he said.

He said the US was taking on a "heavy responsibility" with its ultimatum to Saddam.

However, Jean-David Levitte, the French ambassador in Washington, later said Iraqi use of biological or chemical weapons would change France’s position. He said: "President Chirac will have to decide what we will do to help the American troops to confront this new situation."

The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, outlined his opposition to military action in a telephone call to President Bush and there were strong anti-war statements from China, Indonesia, Germany and the Vatican.

Many Asian nations have tried to sit on the fence with the Philippines, Thailand, India and Pakistan all avoiding a full declaration of their positions.

Mexico, whose refusal to reveal its voting intentions on the UN security council last week led to intensive lobbying from the US and France, finally showed its hand yesterday and said it opposed the use of force.

Professor David Capitanchik, a lecturer in international relations at Aberdeen’s Robert Gordon University, said the various declarations were being made with one eye on the post-conflict scenario. He said: "The United States will remember those nations who give their support. While there is appreciation of Australian and Polish troops, it is only a token gesture.

"The real debt is to nations such as Kuwait which have made a more important contribution. Without Kuwaiti permission to station troops on their soil it would be very difficult to mount an invasion."

Mr Capitanchik added: "The fact that the matter never went to another vote at the United Nations has let nations such as Mexico and Pakistan off the hook. They did not want to be seen lining up behind a French veto but now it is not so important what they believe.

"When the dust settles, it will be the French attitude which will still trouble Washington. Opposition from Russia and China is not taken seriously because of their records in international affairs but France is a European democracy.

"France has attempted to establish itself as the leader of an alternative power to America and my own view is that it will have no success."

THOSE IN SUPPORT AND THOSE AGAINST

COALITION OF THE WILLING:

Armed alliance preparing for invasion: United States (permanent member of UN Security Council): 235,000 troops; United Kingdom: (permanent member of Security Council) 45,000 military personnel; Australia: 2,000 troops; Poland: 200 troops.

Unarmed support in the Gulf: Bulgaria (elected member of Security Council) - 150 chemical warfare experts; Czech Republic - chemical and biological warfare specialists; Romania - non-combat personnel; Slovakia/Ukraine - chemical experts.

Permission for use of military bases/airspace: Bahrain; Kuwait; Qatar; Croatia; Spain (Security Council); Jordan; Italy; Portugal; United Arab Emirates; Ireland; Turkey.

Other supporters of war: Israel; Canada; Japan (post-conflict support); South Korea; Denmark; Netherlands; Afghanistan; Albania; Azerbaijan; Colombia; El Salvador; Eritrea; Estonia; Ethiopia; Georgia; Hungary; Latvia; Lithuania; Macedonia; Nicaragua; Philippines; Uzbekistan.

THE UNWILLING:

France (permanent Member, Security Council) - said it would have used veto.

Russia; China (permanent members of UN Security Council) - would probably have abstained.

Others who have declared opposition: Germany (elected member of Security Council); Belgium; South Africa; Canada; New Zealand; Switzerland; Greece; Iran; Sudan; Lebanon; Indonesia; Malaysia; Mexico (elected to Security Council); Saudi Arabia; The Vatican; Syria (elected to Security Council).

NO CLEAR DECLARATION

Pakistan (elected to Security Council); Angola (elected to Security Council); Chile (elected to Security Council); Cameroon (elected to Security Council); Guinea (elected to Security Council); Thailand; India.