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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: slacker711 who wrote (84160)	3/20/2003 10:42:38 AM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Do you really believe that the totality of their actions was based on a principaled stand? Perhaps a part, but much of it was power politics....and for that, some price must be paid. On the French, slacker, I have no serious idea as to what their intentions, motives, or otherwise were. The only thing I've seen here, on TV, or in newspapers is speculation, some informed and helpful, some just vindictive. My own uneducated guess is that their actions, like the actions of all great powers, were profoundly mixed. I don't think, for instance, that one can characterize the US actions as "principled." Rather as a mix of great power politics (the neocon statements about keeping all other powers secondary), cleaning up old messes (their view that the first Gulf War failed), revenge (for the unsuccessful attempt to assassinate GHWB), concern for the stability of the world economy (oil), anti-Clinton sentiment (their view of the need for a dramatic demonstration that the new US policy is to use weapons rather than have them as diplomatic tools), their view that fear is the most prominent ingredient in foreign policy calculations (again, the need to demonstrate a willingness to use the weapons), etc. I could go on. But to call the US actions "principled" and the French actions "unprincipled" is, in my view, to fall into the binary logic trap that fascinates the Bush folk.

To: slacker711 who wrote (84160)	3/20/2003 10:45:41 AM
From: Sig	Respond to of 281500

Action now beginning to heat up, as well discussed on the News stations Load 'em up and move 'em on out. Probably try to stop more oil well fires

To: slacker711 who wrote (84160)	3/20/2003 12:34:11 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Do you really believe that the totality of their actions was based on a principaled stand? Perhaps a part, but much of it was power politics... It was mostly economic. According to a UPI report, they had already signed major contracts with Saddam to develop the oil fields once the UN sanctions were lifted. (Russia had, also.) With Saddam out of power, those contracts are toast. Also, France has been selling military items to Iraq (possibly in violation of UN sanctions) and presumably expected to continue doing so if Saddam remained in power; with Saddam gone, is Iraq really going to keep buying French jets?? So France had a major economic interest in keeping Saddam in power, and to heck with the freedom and liberty of individual Iraquis or the war crimes of Saddam. For the French, money trumps morality. I'm interested in the rumor posted here that a German company constructed, within the past few years, the bunker Saddam was apparently in. Haven't read anything on it -- is there a credible news report on that? Germany certainly has also been economically benefited by Saddam in various ways over the past 12 years, including some illegal shipments to him by German companies. Guess we know why those countries are so desperate to keep Saddam in power.

To: slacker711 who wrote (84160)	3/20/2003 12:34:11 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Do you really believe that the totality of their actions was based on a principaled stand? Perhaps a part, but much of it was power politics... It was mostly economic. According to a UPI report, they had already signed major contracts with Saddam to develop the oil fields once the UN sanctions were lifted. (Russia had, also.) With Saddam out of power, those contracts are toast. Also, France has been selling military items to Iraq (possibly in violation of UN sanctions) and presumably expected to continue doing so if Saddam remained in power; with Saddam gone, is Iraq really going to keep buying French jets?? So France had a major economic interest in keeping Saddam in power, and to heck with the freedom and liberty of individual Iraquis or the war crimes of Saddam. For the French, money trumps morality. I'm interested in the rumor posted here that a German company constructed, within the past few years, the bunker Saddam was apparently in. Haven't read anything on it -- is there a credible news report on that? Germany certainly has also been economically benefited by Saddam in various ways over the past 12 years, including some illegal shipments to him by German companies. Guess we know why those countries are so desperate to keep Saddam in power.