Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Stop the War! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Just_Observing who wrote (1479)	3/22/2003 11:49:48 PM
From: PartyTime	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21614

JO--I'm asking everyone to refrain from name-calling so that the facts of what's going on gain a greater clarity. Can you help me out on that? Thanks!

To: Just_Observing who wrote (1479)	3/22/2003 11:58:19 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21614

PT wants you to behave. Here, let me give you something useful to do. Argue your way around this: Message 18708925

To: Just_Observing who wrote (1479)	3/23/2003 12:00:26 AM
From: Doug R	Respond to of 21614

Not so delicate a name for a website chronicling a not so delicate dimension of the invasion of Iraq: Adversities such as wars and civil wars threaten the survival and dignity of millions of people. The victims of these conflicts are primarily, if not almost exclusively, civilians - ordinary men and women. Civilian casualties are the most unacceptable consequence of all wars. Each civilian death is a tragedy and should never be regarded as the “cost” of achieving our countries’ war aims, because it is not we who are paying this price. One in four killed in the US war on Afghanistan were civilians, and in Yugoslavia the proportion was even higher. We believe it is a moral and humanitarian duty for each such death to be recorded, publicised, given the weight it deserves and, where possible, investigated to establish whether there are grounds for criminal proceedings. Traditionally, security threats were examined in the context of "state security", i.e. the protection of the state, its boundaries, people, institutions and values from external attacks. States set up powerful military systems to defend themselves. People were considered to be assured of their security through the protection extended by the state. Recent history, however, shows that the states as "protector of people" frequently come to play ineffective if not adversarial roles. They showed no serious interest in documenting and investigating the civilian deaths and their causes. The governments of victor states certainly have almost no interest in doing this during the conduct of military campaigns. Proponents of “modern” warfare also make much of the claim that their weapons are “smart” or “precision guided.” Civilian deaths give the lie to such claims. Recent examples demonstrate that no air-launched weapon can avoid civilian deaths. The UN Secretary-General has called the world community to advance a new human-centred approach to these problems. As a contribution to this effort, the Commission on Human Security (CHS) first met in New York in June 2001 and held its second meeting in Tokyo in December 2001. The Iraq Body Count project is a direct response to this agenda of Human Security. The Iraq Body Count project aims to promote public understanding, engagement and support for the human dimension in wars by providing a reliable and up-to-date documentation of civilian casualties in the event of a US-led war in 2003 in the country. The duty of ‘recorder’ falls particularly heavily on the ordinary citizens of those states whose military forces cause the deaths. In the current crisis, this responsibility must be borne predominantly by citizens of the USA and the UK. It is accepted that war causes many dire consequences for the civilian population even if they are not directly killed or injured in military strikes. They may suffer long-term injury or illness (as a result, for instance of radiation, post-conflict contact with unexploded munitions, pollution due to spillage of toxic materials). UN estimates suggest that a war in Iraq would create starvation and homelessness for millions. A widely-leaked UN report on the humanitarian consequences of a US-led war in Iraq has estimated that the conflict would create two million refugees. (BBC News, 28 January, 2003, 07:38 GMT) People may suffer deep psychological trauma, miscarriage, bereavement, dislocation, and loss of home and property. Destruction of civil infrastructure can have effects which last for generations. These factors undoubtedly cause many further deaths. However, documenting and assigning responsibility for such effects requires long-term “on the ground” resources. Immediate deaths and injuries through military strikes can be pinpointed in place and time, and responsibility straightforwardly attributed to the weapon that caused the death or injury. This project aims to record single-mindedly and on a virtually real-time basis one key and immutable index of the fruits of war: the death toll of innocents. The full extent of this has often gone unnoticed until long after a war has ended, if at all. One reason is that reports of incidents where civilians have been killed are scattered in different news sources and spread over time: one or two killed here, a few dozen there, with only major incidents (such as the attack on the Al-Amariyah bomb shelter where hundreds of women, children and elderly were incinerated alive) being guaranteed headline coverage. But the smaller numbers quickly add up: and however many civilians are killed in the onslaught on Iraq, their death toll should not go unnoticed by those who are paying — in taxes — for their slaughter. It is to these all too easily disregarded victims of violence that Iraq Body Count is dedicated, and we are resolute that they, too, shall have their memorials. The B-2 bomber carries sixteen 2'000 lb. JDAM bombs. If all goes 100% as planned (the bomb does not fall outside of its specified margin of error of 13 meters, and the GPS guidance system is not foiled by a $50 radio jammer kit, easily purchased), then here is what one such bomb does: everyone within a 120 meter radius is killed; to be safe from serious shrapnel damage, a person must be at least 365 meters away; to be really safe from all effects of fragmentation, a person must be 1000 meters away, according to Admiral Stufflebeem. The B-2s will be used upon targets within Baghdad. -Prof Marc W. Herold, IBC Project Consultant iraqbodycount.net The worldwide update of civilian casualties in the war on Iraq