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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Jamey who wrote (34620)3/28/2003 1:06:02 AM
From: 2MAR$  Respond to of 39621
 
So now you question 2/3 of the writings of the New Testament and call the most important disciple of Christ a "flim flam man." The man who ushered in the Age of Grace literally beginning the downfall of the Jewish "works" religion and offering the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the non-Jew and to the world as we know it today.



That was an "Age of Grace" that followed the meanderings of this Paul ? That is just a tiny bit self-delluding statement, for there was no "age of grace " following on the heels of Saul of Tarsus , but maybe it's
the ---->Dark Ages you are referring too?

2000 yrs later and they still cannot see that this "Paul" had barely any knowledge of the life of Jesus , or the miracles he performed , or the events leading up to his death and the subsequent resurrection . And here 2000 yrs stand you together still arguing amongst yourselves about the second coming . Apparently Paul didn't do a very good job of explaining anything , since acccording to most of what I hear , Jesus did more wondeful things after his death than he did in life. Certainly this is the case with all legends turning later into myths as wives and women whisper , and self-procalimed mendicants wander into town with their "visions" and pronouncements.



To: Jamey who wrote (34620)3/28/2003 1:11:06 AM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
But for the Grace of God, there go I!

Well santiago , if you can point out just where this gracious God was all those/these centuries after Paul , and where it is written that in Christianity there was any monopoly on human grace , I would be inclined to understand.
But I see that was is not the case. So where does that leave this Paul from Tarsus ?

"All efforts hitherto made to explain without a miracle the apparition of Jesus to Paul have failed. Naturalistic explanations are reduced to two: either Paul believed that he really saw Christ, but was the victim of an hallucination, or he believed that he saw Him only through a spiritual vision, which tradition, recorded in the Acts of the Apostles, later erroneously materialized. Renan explained everything by hallucination due to disease brought on by a combination of moral causes such as doubt, remorse, fear, and of physical causes such as ophthalmia, fatigue, fever, the sudden transition from the torrid desert to the fresh gardens of Damascus, perhaps a sudden storm accompanied by lightning and thunder. All this combined, according to Renan's theory, to produce a cerebral commotion, a passing delirium which Paul took in good faith for an apparition of the risen Christ.

The other partisans of a natural explanation while avoiding the word hallucination, eventually fall back on the system of Renan which they merely endeavour to render a little less complicated. Thus Holsten, for whom the vision of Christ is only the conclusion of a series of syllogisms by which Paul persuaded himself that Christ was truly risen. So also Pfleiderer, who however, causes the imagination to play a more influential part: "An excitable, nervous temperament; a soul that had been violently agitated and torn by the most terrible doubts; a most vivid phantasy, occupied with the awful scenes of persecution on the one hand and on the other by the ideal image of the celestial Christ; in addition the nearness of Damascus with the urgency of a decision, the lonely stillness, the scorching and blinding heat of the desert -- in fact everything combined to produce one of those ecstatic states in which the soul believes that it sees those images and conceptions which violently agitate it as if they were phenomena proceeding from the outward world



Alot of hallucinating going on...and moralizing , but that was nothing new in that part of a very self-ritghteous, tribal-partisan, and intolerant world . So what has changed ? Paul changed nothing as far as the eye can see. And from this man's hallucinations you get 2/3rds of Christianity ?

OK...

;-)