To: michael97123 who wrote (86904 ) 3/27/2003 8:01:07 PM From: Hawkmoon Respond to of 281500 Its a war that could not be won fought against a nationalism we just did not understand being blinded by an anti-communism that did not take into account local dynamics. Sorry Mike.. That's just not the case. The primary reason the US lost the Vietnam war on the military side, was that we were not as willing to violate the "neutrality" of Laos as the North Vietnamese were. Giap essentially pulled his own lengthy version of a "hail mary" play, by by-passing the narrow DMZ between the north and south, and routing his forces directly through Laos and Cambodia, establishing supply bases, and eventually even a fuel pipeline. Thus, of all the major influences that account for the loss of the Vietnam war (body counting, "pacification", and a corrupt government), the failure to cut the Ho Chi Minh trail must rank as the greatest cause of America's defeat in that war.. Especially post-Tet, when the largest majority of the Viet Cong were wiped out and the war became primarily NVA vs ARVN. See Norman Hannah's book on the subject: "The Key to Failure: Laos and the Vietnam War." airpower.maxwell.af.mil amazon.com "Three recent books argue variations of these themes. Norman B. Hannah, a retired foreign service officer, develops the territorial theme in The Key to Failure: Laos and the Vietnam War.4 Hannah argues that the Ho Chi Minh Trail was the tactical linchpin in North Vietnam's strategy and that when United States signed the Declaration and Protocol on the Neutrality of Laos on 23 July 1962, it foreclosed on its chances for victory in South Vietnam by predestining itself to strategic failure. Laos was supposed to be neutralized by these accords, and all outside parties were to withdraw their forces. Hannah makes the point that, while most American advisers and military personnel assigned to Laos (over 650) left, thousands of North Vietnamese troops remained in eastern Laos to develop and maintain the Ho Chi Minh Trail. By not objecting, Washington tacitly agreed to this violation, and covert operations--which from 1962 until 1965 dominated the United States' tactical approach to the trail--amounted to little more than harassment. In effect, the Geneva agreements of 1962 provided Hanoi with a free hand to develop a valuable logistical pipeline to the South while putting Washington at a strategic disadvantage, in that South Vietnam was laid open, as Hannah states, "to a slow invasion masked as an insurrection."5 That, Michael, is the REAL reason we militarily lost the Vietnam war.. Because we'd already surrendered politically in 1962 by tying our own hands.. Hawk@neverbringaknifetoagunfight.com PS: My Wildcats are kicking all over 'dem "Flailing Irish"