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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (15816)	3/27/2003 10:53:18 PM
From: Victor Lazlo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 89467

ST, the premise here is that the UN is legitimate. It appears that you'd be suprised by the fact that Iraq has just been put in charge of the UN Disarmament Committee, and Lybia has just taken over as the chair of the Human Rights Committee. To believe that the UN has any relevance these days is to live in a realm far beyond the Looking Glass. False altruism and genteel tea parties v. realism. Which shall we embrace? The oil interests of France and Germany in Iraq long ago scarred their intentions. The weapons sales to Iraq by these two countries is icing on the cake. It rally isn't about bush. It really isn't about clinton's failure to act against bin laden. It's about the failed culture of radical wahabbi Islam and its determination to kill and conquer all those who are not same. It's long term, and will outlive Bush. As for Iraq, the al qaeda helped Saddam stomp on the kurds in the north. That was in newspapers at the time. There's a training camp in northern iraq frequented by al qaeda. Just south of baghdad, is salman pak, a huge WMD center and terror training camp. They also have a Beoing 707 there in which they trained hijackers. " Located at the facility are several buildings. The probable main research building at the site is a modern building, composed of twenty four rooms, housing a major BW research facility. Using current technology the research area alone had sufficient floor space to accommodate several continuous-flow or batch fermenters that could produce daily sufficient anthrax bacteria to lethally assault hundreds of square kilometers. Adjacent to the research building is a storage area which contains four munitions type storage bunkers with lightning arrestors. Two of these bunkers have facilities for storage of temperature sensitive biological material. Approximately a mile down the road from the research area is a complex US intelligence believed to be an engineering area. One building in this complex was thought to contain a fermentation pilot plant capable of scale up production of BW agents. A construction project comprising several buildings was begun in early 1989 adjacent to the engineering area, and was near completion in 1990. This new complex was assessed as a pharmaceutical production plant. As such, this facility would have an extensive capability for biological agent production. [GulfLINK] Salman Pak, located 30-40 km SE of Baghdad, engaged in laboratory scale research on Anthrax, Botulinum toxin, Clostridium, perfringens (gas gangrene), mycotoxins, aflatoxins, and Ricin. Researchers at this site carried out toxicity evaluations of these agents and examined their growth characteristics and survivability. <http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/facility/salman_pak.htm> Is this all from Disneyland? pbs.org Then we have th e 'he's one of many' argument. But 'other evil dictators' haven't shown nearly the multinational ambitions that saddam has. This is the obvious flaw in the logic of the argument that there are 40 others just as bad. For example yes, N Korea is just as bad but they haven't reached past their borders to any extent near what Iraq has and would continue to do. regards, Victor

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (15816)	3/27/2003 11:30:46 PM
From: lurqer	Respond to of 89467

Thanks for responding. I now understand the antagonistic thesis better. Yes, I was aware that many neo-cons felt encumbered by multilateral institutions. Escaping from such “limitations”, and becoming an international pariah, are two different things. I firmly believe that the neo-cons are so incompetent, that they believed they could “go it alone”, and still not produce the degree of antipathy they have. I recall Rumsfeld’s face when first presented with the combined Franco-German alternative – astonishment transitioning to seething anger. I believe they were truly surprised by Turkey. And the implications of an Al Azhar fatwa is (IMO) not part of their calculus. You are correct that I should consider some of the disruption to be by arrogant design, but I would suggest you consider the possibility of incompetence. Since neither arrogance nor incompetence bode well for our country, vigilance is advised. JMO lurqer

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (15816)	3/27/2003 11:39:33 PM
From: eddieww	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 89467

I've been wondering whether and when the Iranians and Syrians will launch their armies against our flanks. Surely their General Staffs can read maps and their political leadership can read the rather frightening material at newamericancentury.org - which is rapidly becoming official American policy. Certainly, if I were them, I would be in close consultation with each other and the Iraqis about the timing of a massive coordinated attack to nip American military adventurism and imperialism by handing the US an enormous military defeat. I would be very careful not to provoke the Israelis into participation, and I would offer the Turks control of at least part of Iraqi Kurdistan for non-intervention on the US side. I wonder if our political and military leadership have given reasonable consideration of these possibilities. I don't think that we would get any help from any quarter. Not even our so-called NATO allies, who are increasingly worried about US hegemony.