SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: A. Geiche who wrote (381948)3/29/2003 11:27:18 PM
From: Thomas A Watson  Respond to of 769670
 
LOL, idiots.mine.ne Pure unadulterated America envy hate,



To: A. Geiche who wrote (381948)3/30/2003 12:40:00 AM
From: Emile Vidrine  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 769670
 
You make several valid points:
1. America is the only nation that ever used nuclear weapons against civilian populations.
2. America probably pioneered the creation and use of biological weapons.
3. America has used chemical weapons in warfare.
4. America has become a rogue nation of sorts "pre-emptively" attacking and invading soverign nations according to the economic and political necessities of the movement.
5. Iraq was not a threat to the US but it definitely was a threat to Israel and Kuwait.

Now that we have admitted all of these wrongs, we are still forced to consider the present international chaos and instability that exists beyond America's wrong doings. Radical Islamic nationalism and radical Jewish nationalism (Zionism) are both challenging the post WWII global arrangements and boundaries. World order is disintegrating.

Radical Islamists use the geographical and economic inequities imposed on the post-Ottoman Islamic world by the oil-driven Western powers--England, France and America. The grievances are real, but the Islamic nationalist only use these inequities as fuel to drive the inherent Islamic desire for conflict and conquest.

Zionists, on the other hand, provoke Islamic nationalism to find a pretext for their own nationalistic and territorial ambitions. Zionists are solidly embedded in European and American societies and are using this hidden leverage to advance the radical Israeli territorial agenda in the heart of Islamic nationalism.

Ben Laden and Sharon both demand the collapse of the old world order! Ben Laden wants to drive the infidels--Jews and Christians--out of Islamic lands. Sharon and the Likudniks, on the other hand, want to drive the Moslems and Christains OUT OF THE JEWISH PROMISED LANDS. Sharon's vision of Greater Israel sees a land from the Nile to the Euphrates, a land free of Moslems and Christians--the Goyim! Ben Laden's vision sees a unified Islamic Empire free of Jews and Christians from Morocco to Bulgaria and India. To fulfill their visions, each demands that the old map of the world be redrawn once more to accomodate their xenophobic visions! (Christian Zionist have lost the vision of Jesus' spiritual kingdom and simply push Congress and the President to fulfill Sharon's earthly vision.)

Then we have the Asian instability. Red China lusts for Taiwan, Mongolia and Siberia while Japan and Korea continue to eye each other with distrust over the WWII hostilities.

Without a strong decisive military force, the world will disintegrate into another age of chaos and cultural darkness. Is it possible that American Civlization perceives this instinctively and moves imperfectly to fill the vacuum and the need? Do you prefer that the barbarians and the lawless reshape the world, or that imperfect America establish the rule of law and order by force of arms? Your points about America's injustices are mostly correct, but America is still the only nation with the strength and resources to restrain the Vikings, Mongol hordes and Attilas of our age andk retain a semblance of world order. We may well have reached a point where we have a choice between imperfect and often hypocritical America, or chaos and a new Dark Age!

I do not have a clear answer! I believe that America's unprovoked attack on Iraq is evi! But beyond the Zionist cabal around Rumsfeld, beyond the greedy oil barons pushing for this war, and beyond the meglomaniaics and xenophobic crazies, there is still the hand of God shaping and guiding human events and human history. Are we experiencing something beyong the analytical power of man, beyond the neat cause and effect determinants? Was the order of cruel and dictatorial Rome worst than the cruel and murderous chaos of Attila and the Germanic horders?
America's pornogrpahy, greed, abortion, gluttony and pride are ugly vices, but is it worst than the unrestrained passions of the jungle?



To: A. Geiche who wrote (381948)3/30/2003 1:10:50 AM
From: A. Geiche  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 769670
 
AN EVIDENCE: THE MARKET MISSLE WAS AMERICAN

Blood and Bandages for the Innocent, Tears for the Dead
Robert Fisk
The Independent
March 30, 2003

IN THE BAGHDAD SUBURB OF SHULA — The piece of metal is only a foot high, but the numbers on it hold the clue to the latest atrocity in Baghdad.

At least 62 civilians had died by yesterday afternoon, and the coding on that hunk of metal contains the identity of the culprit. The Americans and British were doing their best yesterday to suggest that an Iraqi anti-aircraft missile destroyed those dozens of lives, adding that they were "still investigating" the carnage. But the coding is in Western style, not in Arabic. And many of the survivors heard the plane.

In the Al-Noor Hospital yesterday morning, there were appalling scenes of pain and suffering. A two-year-old girl, Saida Jaffar, swaddled in bandages, a tube into her nose, another into her stomach. All I could see of her was her forehead, two small eyes and a chin. Beside her, blood and flies covered a heap of old bandages and swabs. Not far away, lying on a dirty bed, was three-year-old Mohamed Amaid, his face, stomach, hands and feet all tied tightly in bandages. A great black mass of congealed blood lay at the bottom of his bed.

This is a hospital without computers, with only the most primitive of X-ray machines. But the missile was guided by computers and that vital shard of fuselage was computer-coded. It can be easily verified and checked by the Americans - if they choose to do so. It reads: 30003-704ASB 7492.

The letter "B" is scratched and could be an "H". This is believed to be the serial number. It is followed by a further code which arms manufacturers usually refer to as the weapon's "Lot" number. It reads: MFR 96214 09.

The piece of metal bearing the coding was retrieved only minutes after the missile exploded on Friday evening by an old man whose home is only 100 yards from the 6ft crater. Even the Iraqi authorities do not know that it exists. The missile sprayed hunks of metal through the crowds — mainly women and children - and through the cheap brick walls of local homes, amputating limbs and heads. Three brothers, the eldest 21 and the youngest 12, for example, were cut down inside the living room of their brick hut on the main road opposite the market. Two doors away, two sisters were killed in an identical manner. "We have never seen anything like these wounds before," Dr. Ahmed, an anesthetist at the Al-Noor Hospital told me later. "These people have been punctured by dozens of bits of metal." He was right. One old man I visited in a hospital ward had 24 holes in the back of his legs and buttocks, some as big as pound coins. An X-ray photograph handed to me by one of his doctors clearly showed at least 35 slivers of metal still embedded in his body like the Sha'ab highway massacre on Thursday - when at least 21 Iraqi civilians were killed or burned to death by two missiles fired by an American jet — Shula is a poor, Shiite Muslim neighborhood of single-story corrugated iron and cement food stores and two-room brick homes.

These are the very people whom Messrs Bush and Blair expected to rise in insurrection against Saddam. But the anger in the slums was directed at the Americans and British yesterday, by old women and bereaved fathers and brothers who spoke without hesitation - and without the presence of the otherwise ubiquitous government "minders".

"This is a crime," a woman muttered at me angrily. "Yes, I know they say they are targeting the military. But can you see soldiers here? Can you see missiles?"

The answer has to be in the negative. A few journalists did report seeing a Scud missile on a transporter near the Sha'ab area on Thursday and there were anti-aircraft guns around Shula. At one point yesterday morning, I heard an American jet race over the scene of the massacre and just caught sight of a ground-to-air missile that was vainly chasing it, its contrail soaring over the slum houses in the dark blue sky.

An anti-aircraft battery - manufactured circa 1942 - also began firing into the air a few blocks away. But even if the Iraqis do position or move their munitions close to the suburbs, does that justify the Americans firing into those packed civilian neighborhoods, into areas which they know contain crowded main roads and markets - and during the hours of daylight? Last week's attack on the Sha'ab highway was carried out on a main road at midday during a sandstorm - when dozens of civilians are bound to be killed, whatever the pilot thought he was aiming at. "I had five sons and now I have only two - and how do I know that even they will survive?" a bespectacled middle-aged man said in the bare concrete back room of his home yesterday. "One of my boys was hit in the kidneys and heart. His chest was full of shrapnel; it came right through the windows. Now all I can say is that I am sad that I am alive."

A neighbor interrupted to say that he saw the plane with his own eyes.

"I saw the side of the aircraft and I noticed it change course after it fired the missile." Plane-spotting has become an all-embracing part of life in Baghdad. And to the reader who thoughtfully asked last week if I could see with my own eyes the American aircraft over the city, I have to say that in at least 65 raids by aircraft, I have not - despite my tiger-like eyes - actually seen one plane. I hear them, especially at night, but they are flying at supersonic speed; during the day, they are usually above the clouds of black smoke that wash over the city. I have, just once, spotted a cruise missile - the cruise or Tomahawk rockets fly at only around 400mph - and I saw it passing down a boulevard toward the Tigris River. But the gray smoke that shoots out of the city like the fingers of a dead hand is unmistakable, along with the concussion of sound. And - when they can be found - the computer coding on the bomb fragments reveal their own story.

As the codes on the Shula missile surely must.

All morning yesterday, the Americans were at it again, blasting away at targets on the perimeter of Baghdad - where the outer defenses of the city are being dug by Iraqi troops - and in the center. An air-fired rocket exploded on the roof of the Iraqi Ministry of Information, destroying a clutch of satellite dishes. One office building from which I was watching the bombardment literally swayed for several seconds during one long raid.

Even in the Al-Noor Hospital, the walls were shaking yesterday as the survivors of the market slaughter struggled for survival.

Hussein Mnati is 52 and just stared at me - his face pitted with metal fragments - as bombs blasted the city. A 20-year-old man was sitting up in the next bed, the blood-soaked stump of his left arm plastered over with bandages. Only 12 hours ago, he had a left arm, a left hand, fingers. Now he blankly recorded his memories. "I was in the market and I didn't feel anything," he told me. "The rocket came and I was to the right of it and then an ambulance took me to hospital." Whether or not his amputation was dulled by painkillers, he wanted to talk.

When I asked him his name, he sat upright in bed and shouted at me: "My name is Saddam Hussein Jassem.">>>>



To: A. Geiche who wrote (381948)3/30/2003 1:38:02 AM
From: Dr. Doktor  Respond to of 769670
 
<<They have declared as well that they are going to use these
nukes only and only in response to a nuclear attack. Have
US subscribed to such restriction? They did not. Having so overwhelming arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, this country refused to restrict itself with any limitations in using them and everyone knows that it is mad and immoral enough
to use them, as it already did use its nuclear bombs on entirely civilian cities>>

You are full of shit. You don't deserve to live in this country you f*cking lick-knob. The nukes on the imperialist murdering Japs saved perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives including the Japs. I don't see a single comment from you Hate-America c*cksuckers that says boo about the Iraqis and their war strategy. I will never understand how you mental patients could hate your own country like you do. You were most likely sexually abused by your mother or father as a child.

DOC