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Politics : Stop the War! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: thames_sider who wrote (6868)4/2/2003 8:22:52 PM
From: jlallen  Respond to of 21614
 
Wanting to take Saddam out because he is evil is "irrational"???

JLA



To: thames_sider who wrote (6868)4/2/2003 8:44:09 PM
From: epicure  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 21614
 
I think you understand what I was trying to say. I thought it was clear in context. This took place in a larger discussion of "evil"- which is why I kept evil in quotes. While I certainly think Saddam does things that he should not do, and which are painful to humanity, I do not see the utility in the word "evil". Not because I wouldn't think he was evil if I believed in using that word- but that word is too much like religion- it can be anything you "believe" it is. It is unnecessary- and of course leaves open the opportunity for other people who believe in a different concept of evil to do things solely because "something is evil and must be disposed of"- like the US. I prefer a more neutral concept. If something doesn't seem to work out to the benefit of a majority of humans in a given area, I think of that as inutile. That is subjective, I admit, but does not have the emotional content of "evil". Of course one ALWAYS thinks that the things one thinks are really really awful are "evil"- but what good is that really? There are always other people in the world who will think what I think is really really awful, is actually good. It is easier to present a case for the utile. I can argue quite handily that keeping crime down has more utility for society at large than allowing a free for all.

And then sometimes two very inutile things collide. Saddam, who is (imo) very problematic for his people, colliding with US interests which include 1. our goodwill in the world 2. the money we are going to spend 3. the creation of more fundamentalism in the ME and a new generation of martyrs 4. dangerous (imo)new concepts of preemptive war, and the odd use of resolutions, without the consent of the body that created the resolution (I am very troubled by both these issues)- and that's just for starters. There are many leaders who do things that are as "evil" as Saddam. WE cannot take them all out, nor, I think, do we want to encourage other countries to take out leaders they see as "evil". We could give aid and comfort to refugees, and give money to international relief organizations, and organizations like Amnesty International, but we don't really do enough of that sort of thing. I don't follow the logic of the "evil" Saddam "let's kill him" folks. I'm sure it is emotionally satisfying, but it doesn't make sense to me on a practical level. There you have it. Maybe. Or maybe I just made myself more unclear.



To: thames_sider who wrote (6868)4/2/2003 8:50:32 PM
From: E  Respond to of 21614
 
That's an interesting nuance, but I think X put the quotation marks where she intended them to be. She did it more than once, in fact.

Certainly I agree that the leader of a country's being evil has not been a sufficient reason for us to invade that country, heck, check out Myanmar, check out NK, check out... well, the list is long; and it isn't the sole reason in this case. Your subject, the rationality of the invasion, is a different and very large one being discussed all over SI. Not to mention the planet.

But let's see whether X corrects her sentence, acknowledging that Saddam is evil and that she can't, or can, think of anyone who doesn't think the acts mentioned are evil.

Here's her sentence again:

And you see them here- wanting to take out Saddam because he is "evil" (in our opinion).

But as I understand it, your view is that X made a punctuation error, and is merely saying that she doubts Saddam's unquestionable evilness is really our sole reason.

I'm interested to see if X will respond that Saddam is evil, or if she will confirm her intention of saying that Saddam is "evil" (in our opinion).