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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: paul_philp who wrote (89607)	4/3/2003 1:51:47 PM
From: Rascal	Respond to of 281500

Which one is Israel and Palestine?

To: paul_philp who wrote (89607)	4/3/2003 2:02:35 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

> I don't understand your statement. I was answering a cheap shot that 3rd party had taken on me when he interjected himself between a conversation I had with CB. But I am glad you answered me so we can go over some of this. > It is useful to avoid cheap stereotypes of the Arabic world. Couldn't agree more with you. > It is my position that there are three forces competing in the middle east today: If you follow my discussion with Frank, you'll see that imo there only one conflict with many faces. A western drive to reshape the world in its own image, and a resistance that wants to remain independent. > 1) Pan Arabic Secular Tyranny (Saddam) Yes. This is a big problem. It is also one of the main reasons why many in the middle east have rejected western ideas. At best they see support for their corrupt rulers as an element of Western imperialism. At worst they see Saddam (and the likes of him) as being followers and puppets of Western ideologies and regimes. Wolfowitz understands this very well. That's why he insists on establishing a successful Iraqi democratic regime as the best solution. I actually agree with him on that (which is why reason I respect him). I just don't agree with the methods. He has to do it this way because he wants to do so much and has so little time. But I don't think it can be done as a rush job. The end results will be that when it fails, everyone will blame Wolfowitz's ideology instead of the methods. > 2) Pan Arabic Theocracry (Iran, Islamism and OBL) You are mixing oil/water/and rocks here. Iran is not Arab so cannot be part of any pan-Arab scheme. Unlike most of the Arab world which is Sunni, Iranians are mostly Shia. This means they can have no pan-Islamist scheme since there are fundamental differences between Shia and Sunnis. Even if you take Iran out of this whole equation and look at it only in Arab world, pan-Arabism will not work. Before you can have such a thing, you need to have a cohesive nation. Most Arab countries do not have the concept of nation right let alone a pan-nation system. If you think this is confusing, you are not alone. Many Arabs think that being Muslim means being Arab (or at least being pro-Arab). I assure you that amongst Muslims Arabs are alone in this thought, though many outsiders seem to agree with them. Arabs make up a minority of Muslims. > 3) Capitalism/Democracy/Technology (the Great Satan) Yes. Here we have one of the parties which is at odds with the native population. But not for the reasons that many here seem to think. As far as religions go, Islam is very democratic (see my discussion with Frank and the relevant portions in your article). It is not the same as western democracy, but nor is it at war with it. Unlike communism, there is nothing in Islam that is anti-Capitalism. To the contrary, Mohammed was a rich merchant capitalist whose successful business allowed him to contemplate finer philosophical views of life. The same thing goes for Technology. Unlike Christianity, Islam has never made an enemy of science. Again to the contrary, there are explicit instruction to seek knowledge even if it is in foreign lands. When you see through this fog, you will see that the solution is a lot simpler than you think, if only we are willing not to be as greedy and can have a little patience. Sun Tzu