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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: D. Long who wrote (90530)	4/6/2003 3:05:53 AM
From: paul_philp	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

And not merely a tiny bit paranoid delusions. I put Sun on ignore when he painted that wonderful cartoon image of the evil capitalistic system forcing its will on the innocent victims of the world. Delusion is too hard a word but it is a paranoid fantasy (we all have paranoid fantasies, so this is not a dis on Sun). The problem with paranoid fantasy is they sell well and are very hard to refute. One of the reasons I suspect Bush chose the WMD argument over other alternatives is because paranoid fantasy sells and it's not hard at all to construct a paranoid fantasy out of Saddam's WMD programs. There are a lot of paranoid fantasies for sale these days - from every political leaning. Occam's Razor is the best first line defense against other people's paranoia. Our own personal paranoia requires more work to overcome. Paul

To: D. Long who wrote (90530)	4/7/2003 1:00:48 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

Derek, what are you trying to pull here? Did you read my whole discussion with CB or just the parts you wanted? Here's a bit to refresh your memory: CB: you think that there are a lot of people who don't want to have any further contact with mass culture ST: Certainly there is a lot of that. But that is not all there is to it. Content, or lack there of, is a big part of it...So there are many parts to it. There are those who are the Muslim equivalent of Bible thumpers. There are those who want to fight mass media (but not necessarily with guns). There are those who want more liberalization. And there are those who want TV programming to be replaced (or at least more reflective of) their traditional values (in other words they are not necessarily anti-technology). And there are even those who want more progress and modernization. All these cross currents are boiling inside oppressive regimes. You seem to think that technology has no effect on culture or that it effects all cultures the similarly or in minimal ways. I guess you were not paying attention when all the debate was raging on about how internet will change the fabric of life everywhere and people were not just talking about having video on demand. Remember the medium is the message slogan? Remember all the talk about "global village" and how change (read change in fashion, technology, and consumption) in one part of the world would effect many people in other parts? Did you miss those debates about technology and culture or do dispute them? They were talking about real social changes on global scale. Do you think it is natural for a teenage girl half way around to the globe to make Britney Spears her goddess and listen to songs she has no idea what the words mean? (note if you reply I expect an answer to this question) Here is another important question to you, how would you feel if you came home one day and saw your teenage girl wanting to wear Islamic hejab or a borqa? How would you like to see her embracing traditions you've only heard of on some National geographic episode? And you came to the realization that this is not just a phase, but that your beliefs and values are being destroyed Doesn't feel so good, does it? Well that is how many feel at the other end of the globe when they see they children want to have pierced body or go out in what in their culture is sexually promiscuous clothing. And the reason your kids don't idealize the vibratos or Quranic orators or wish to relate to self sacrificing heroes of foreign lands and theirs imitate Michael Jackson and Britney has less to do with how good Michael sounds and more to do with the massive marketing and advertising muscle behind mass culture. The day you start dressing like Arabs, liking to watch camel racing, enjoyed taking a walk in Sahara instead of skiing, prefer to ride a rickshaw instead of a car, started using a samovar instead of a coffee maker, considered using Qantas as a better way to use water, gave up on swimming pool in favor of date trees, started imitating their behavior in the movies, sing their songs, and prefer kufta over hamburger and still not feel you are under cultural assault, then I will believe in your point. ST