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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (90605)	4/6/2003 12:49:09 PM
From: paul_philp	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

CB, It was the cartoonish nature and the extremity of the evil that I object to. In fact, every democratic country, as far as I can tell, has a mixed capitalist/socialist economy, which vary primarily in the proportions. Schumpeter in 'Socialsim, Capitalism and Democracy' made a persuasive argument that Democracy cannot foster a strong Capitalism and over time every democracy becomes more Socialism. He argued that Democracy contains the seeds of it's own downfall. There is plenty of evidence of both Canada and USA to back his argument today. Paul

To: Ilaine who wrote (90605)	4/7/2003 12:48:42 AM
From: D. Long	Respond to of 281500

The solution they see, socialism, is something they believe will work. Which ironically centralizes economic, political, and military power in the hands of an elite, making it even easier to exploit the masses. Naked self-interest is transparent, and without the power of the State, controllable. But when total power is vested in the hands of those who believe they have THE ANSWER for the rest of us poor, ignorant fools who don't really know what's best for us, there's usually carnage. The 20th century has given us a pretty good track record. Those that come bearing promises of Utopia usually carry Hell in large doses instead. Derek

To: Ilaine who wrote (90605)	4/7/2003 1:18:09 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Respond to of 281500

> The solution they see, socialism, is something they believe will work. I certainly don't see socialism as a working solution. In case you missed it, I believe corporations should not be taxed at all (not on income anyway). Nor do I believe in taxation as a method of directing economy (something that US does quite often but is against capitalism). In fact, I have spoken a lot about the wrong of trade unions. No socialist would ever take these positions. The only thing that I ask for is that business is not allowed to set government's policy or interfere with the legal or political process. All the excuses that businesses give for why they need to "educate" the government are immaterial. If a mistake is made, it will be short term and the society will fix it. Think of it as the "invisible hand" at work but only with regards to political process. BTW, you said something that was my position long ago. In fact it still is, but my method to achieve it has changed. You are right, the challenge is to enlighten the people and the leaders to understand behaving in ethical and compassionate way is in the best long term interest of everyone, including themselves. I just don't see how that can happen so long as there are unfair political contributions and taxation is used to direct business activity. Sun Tzu PS You are right, I did see a ton of exploitation of the masses. I saw it in Iraq, I saw it in Iran, I saw it in Pakistan, in Thailand, and I saw it in Harlem and South Bronx. I certainly saw it in Afghanistan, even though I never went there and was only at the border towns. And I've been to both Kurdistans (Iranian's and Iraqi's). Exploitation doesn't even describe it there. I didn't really see it in Kuwait and Saudi, but they didn't feel right either (I am excluding women out of there, otherwise they were worse than the others in regards to women). The kinds of "fair" competition that the far right is pushing for is the competition between Carl Lewis and the guy on the wheel chair. I see nothing fair about that.