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To: pezz who wrote (31087)	4/8/2003 11:03:49 PM
From: portage	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

>>Besides it's the oil weapon that counts. The threat od $40 or higher that can be held over our heads...Until that weapon is taken away we will be at their mercy. >> So what is it that this $40 weapon does to us ? Prevents us from affording always-on air conditioning in our 4,000 sq. ft. houses, or fueling up those Suburbans ? Pure agony. Wouldn't want to put our minds to developing alternatives or exercising a little conservation, would we ? We're American, and we've got the right to do whatever we damn well please. Goddam ! It's a good thing that the weapons we use won't make them suffer like us. Cluster bomb shrapnel through the torso is far less of an inconvenience than driving a slightly smaller car, ain't it ? How 'bout that kid who lost both arms and 10 family members in one of the bombing raids of the past few days ? It's unfortunate that it has to happen this way, but we can't have them charging us too much for that oil of ours under their sand. It's about greed, arrogance, and the American Way - bloodthirsty and violent - unless you do what we say. And ever since 2000, it comes with a swagger. Afghanistan was a counter measure, pursuing those who attacked us. Iraq is empire building. I hope the average Iraqi does come out of this better after the long period of sorting out this mess, but if there was no oil there, can you say that anyone in the current white house would give a shit about them ? Something tells me they're just switching one form of oppression for another. Put on your thinking fez, pezz.

To: pezz who wrote (31087)	4/8/2003 11:33:22 PM
From: elmatador	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

<<oil weapon that counts. The threat of $40 or higher that can be held over our heads...Until that weapon is taken away we will be at their mercy.>> Drill the Artic Slope. Deep sea water drilling in the coast of California. I would like next time to pass the Golden Gate and see the rigs from there. Ah, but no one want to see rigs in the landscape. No one wants to drill the Artic slope. For those it is better to use poor Guatemalans Green Card holder, native American Indians and poor 19-year old girls to go die and get maimed for the benefit of protecting the environment. If this weapon at the US people heads would fire, no brains mass would come out of the inside.

To: pezz who wrote (31087)	4/9/2003 1:38:36 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

<Besides it's the oil weapon that counts. The threat od $40 or higher that can be held over our heads...Until that weapon is taken away we will be at their mercy.> Pezz, a weapon is force used against somebody. Refusing to sell somebody something you own isn't a weapon. You might really, really want to buy it, but if they don't want to sell, tough luck. That's the free market Pezz. It's called freedom. Nazis and communists and totalitarians don't understand freedom and free markets, but that's how they work. It's called voluntary interchange of value. You are proposing monkey-brained theft. Which is no way to run a railroad. It's been tried forever in the red in tooth and claw realm of nature. In the human realm, it's found not as effective as free trade, private property and freedom to own property without some dumb thug stealing it because they want it or need it real bad. However, in the instance of Saddam, I'm quite happy that the USA steal it from him since he has no legitimacy in owning it, having stolen it at the barrel of a gun from the previous owners. I'd prefer the UN take it and it seems that the USA is planning on using the Iraqi oil to fund Iraq, presumably through the UN at some stage, once the smoke has cleared. Mqurice

To: pezz who wrote (31087)	4/9/2003 10:34:39 AM
From: Moominoid	Respond to of 74559

Higher prices are the incentive to develop technologies to reduce the US dependence on foreign oil (with potential environmental benefits too) as the government doesn't want to act on this issue. In the meantime there is the strategic petroleum reserve to iron out any price spikes. Oil prices were much higher in the 1980s in real terms. The US still does produce its own oil though that has been declining since the 1970s. Oil is mainly used for transport and petrochemicals (some heating, little electric generation). Double the efficiency of use in transport encourage the shift to natural gas in the heating/generation area and you'd get within the US and some friendly countries production levels. Bottom line is there are lots of alternatives. But we go blithely along assuming that business will continue as usual, get shocked by the next price spike in oil and then try to apply the least best solution to the problem. David