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Politics : Stop the War! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: PartyTime who wrote (10404)	4/9/2003 2:52:13 AM
From: Sojourner Smith	Respond to of 21614

I think this hit and miss game frustrates the public. They would been better off not saying they think they got him. I hope they send something into those tunnels fast.

To: PartyTime who wrote (10404)	4/9/2003 2:52:54 AM
From: eims2000	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21614

"I'm reasonably confident this whole thing will untangle in a very bad way, and not at all what Bush, et. al. expect." Translated: I can't wait till the troops and Americans get their asses kicked badly and Bush is disgraced.

To: PartyTime who wrote (10404)	4/9/2003 6:42:07 AM
From: ChrisJP	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21614

Hi PartyTime -- you wanted to stop the war -- So did I -- the only difference is that I felt the quickest way to stop it was .... to start it. Otherwise the war -- meaning terrorist acts, the inspection shell game, the murder and oppression of Iraqi people -- would drag on indefinitely. This regime change has been a long time coming. As I posted earlier, the US gave up on peaceful cooperation from Iraq and has been looking for the opportunity for regime change since 1998. I also tend to agree with you -- there's more sadness to come -- in the form of retaliation, anarchy, and struggle for power in the new government. But this would have happened internally (if Saddam had lived into his 70s) 10 years from now any way. My one hope is that the Iraqi people reach out to the Islamic world and TELL THEIR STORY. TELL THE ISLAMIC WORLD WHO THE BAD GUY REALLY WAS ! Chris

To: PartyTime who wrote (10404)	4/9/2003 9:42:02 AM
From: Machaon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21614

<< Saddam is dead is just American propaganda. >> Spoken like a true enemy of America. Do you work for terrorist news services? << It's just that some folks refuse to read between the lines in this country and take everything Bush is spouting out as gospel. >> But you are not just Anti-Bush, you are anti-America. See..... Some of us do read between the lines and find your anti-Americanism to be very obnoxious and treacherous. You are making a huge deal out of our government thinking that they may have killed Saddam, his sons, and many others from Saddam's regime. This was based on America's undercover operations and intelligence operations in Iraq, which have been extremely successful. America's military operation in Iraq is nothing short of miraculous. America's military operation is shocking the world because it has been so successful, powerful and effective. An AMAZING job. And even though our government is not saying that we definitely killed Saddam, but that they feel that they might have gotten him, you are already on the bandwagon condemning America. Your anti-American treachery disgusts me. << Those reports are just to keep middle-America in fear and to keep them supporting Bush's war. >> And of course, your huge unwarranted ego now tries to insult the great people of America. We are not in fear. We are not supporting Bush's war, we are supporting OUR war! You are an insulting mindless clown.

To: PartyTime who wrote (10404)	4/9/2003 10:55:36 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21614

Smiles and Flowers for U.S. Marines in Baghdad Wed April 9, 2003 05:29 AM ET By Sean Maguire BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Hundreds of jubilant Iraqis mobbed a convoy of U.S. Marines on Wednesday, cheering, dancing and waving as American troops swept toward central Baghdad through slums and leafy suburbs from the east. Crowds threw flowers at the Marines as they drove past the Martyrs' Monument, just three km (two miles) east of the central Jumhuriya Bridge over the Tigris river. Young and middle-aged men, many wearing soccer shirts of leading Western clubs like Manchester United, shouted "Hello, hello" as Marines advanced through the rundown sprawl of Saddam City and then more prosperous suburbs with villas and trim lawns. "No more Saddam Hussein," chanted one group, waving to troops as they passed. "We love you, we love you." One young man ran alongside a Marine armored personnel carrier trying to hand over a heavy belt of ammunition. An older man made a wild kicking gesture with his foot, saying "Goodbye Saddam." Women waved from balconies, girls threw flower petals at young Marines leaning across gun turrets. One woman held her baby aloft. Tank crews picked the flowers from the tops of their fighting machines, smelt them and grinned. One man shouted to a soldier: "Is it over?." "Almost," came the Marine's reply. "To be honest, I'm happy it appears they're not going to fight. I was a little nervous when the crowd was so exuberant, we've heard so much about suicide bombings and drive-by shootings," said Captain Dan Rose. "We are the lead regiment now. We are the furthest forward of anyone," Colonel John Toolan, commander of 1st Marine Regiment, told Reuters. "I believe we are on the last leg." ABANDONED WEAPONRY At one point, the Marine convoy of over a dozen armored vehicles halted, spotting a blue flat-bed truck partly concealed behind a high brick wall. Within seconds, U.S. heavy machineguns had taken it out causing a huge explosion, sending up a fireball and scattering the crowds who ran for cover. Moments later, Marines came across four "ready to fire" SA-2 missiles covered by tarpaulin by the roadside. Earlier, U.S. tanks simply ran over any small arm weaponry they found and destroyed abandoned heavy artillery pieces. Lance Corporal Justin Cleaves, 26, having his photograph taken next to the SA-2 missiles, said: "It was pretty crazy coming through all those people throwing flowers. They were real happy to see us. "It looks as though the (Iraqi) troops just dropped everything and ran," he said. There were no Iraqi soldiers or police in sight. People in the crowds said the troops had left0 on Tuesday. Nearer Baghdad center, people were everywhere, running across roads and down narrow side streets carrying whatever they could lay their hands on. Cars and trucks heaved and spluttered, piled high with furniture, refrigerators, clothing, tires -- all apparently looted from shops and government offices. "I'm happy to be here, but a little disappointed there weren't more soldiers to fight...still, it's a good feeling knowing people are that afraid of us," said 32-year-old Sergeant Brian Dow. "I kinda felt like Madonna there, having flowers thrown at me." reuters.com

To: PartyTime who wrote (10404)	4/10/2003 5:43:37 AM
From: Vitas	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 21614

Iraqi prisoners of war tell of murder By Harvey Morris in Eshkawt, northern Iraq Published: April 9 2003 16:41 \| Last Updated: April 9 2003 16:41 Saddam Hussein's militia used a combination of murder, indoctrination and bribery to try to force a reluctant Iraqi army to fight the US-led coalition, according to prisoners of war captured in recent days on the northern front. The prisoners described paramilitary death squads - made up of Saddam's Fedayeen, Ba'ath party loyalists and military intelligence - who were charged with carrying out the battlefield executions of anyone who sought to flee or retreat. Two men on Wednesday gave eyewitness accounts of the execution last Saturday of a commander of the Iraqi 29th brigade after he recommended retreating from Sheykhan, a frontline town that fell to US and Kurdish forces at the weekend. "He was made to stand in a ditch for half an hour or so and then he was shot," said Salah Mehdi Taleb. "The man who shot him was Mahmoud Taher, who also gave us political education." The indoctrination, which consisted of lectures on the soldiers' Islamic duty to resist invasion, began only when the war started, said Ayad Mohamed Qassem, the other soldier. "He was playing the role of an Islamic teacher, but he was just trying to make us fight." The accounts of death squads operating behind the Iraqi lines echoed testimony gathered by Human Rights Watch, the international human rights agency, which interviewed 26 prisoners at Eshkawt, a tent encampment under the jurisdiction of the International Committee of the Red Cross north of Arbil. Offering an explanation for the motivation of the death squads, Mr Taleb said: "These people were hired by the regime and were paid well so they didn't care who they shot." Some of the prisoners were thin but otherwise looked in good health. Human Rights Watch reported that those detained earlier in the war had spoken of living on grass and being unable to wash for up to 40 days. There are so far 360 soldiers at the camp, including six officers and 28 non-commissioned officers. Most fled the battlefield as soon as they had the chance and surrendered to Kurdish peshmerga. The camp has no perimeter fence and is only lightly guarded. A 34-year army veteran, who served in the Iraqi 12th mechanical division, said the US air bombardment was worse than in 1991. "We had no motivation for this war. The Ba'athists only know how to threaten and frighten people, otherwise every Iraqi would join in to get rid of Saddam Hussein." One prisoner who had been posted at the same frontline position since 1994 said food was poor and equipment scarce until about a month before the war began. Then conditions improved and pay was doubled to the equivalent of about $5 a month. "They suddenly started treating us better, to bribe us to fight," he said. A Kurdish soldier, conscripted into the Iraqi army in Kirkuk, said the death squads warned Arab soldiers that they would be summarily killed by the Kurds if they tried to cross to their lines. "Half of them believed it and half didn't. Even those who didn't have been surprised at how well they have been received here." Officials in the Kurdish autonomous zone have said the men should not be regarded as captives. Masoud Barzani, head of the Kurdistan Democratic party, has said they are to be treated as the guests of the Kurdish people. One prisoner said the violence and intimidation against the army did not begin with this war. The former Republican Guard veteran sought refuge in Kurdistan after the 1991 war but returned home to central Iraq under a 1994 amnesty. Like many others he went absent without leave shortly after rejoining his unit. "They offered the Ba'athists a 20,000 dinar ($7) bounty for every absent soldier they captured. They caught me," he said, turning his head to the left, "and they cut off my ear." news.ft.com