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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Cogito who wrote (392397)	4/14/2003 11:24:18 PM
From: Srexley	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

Hi Allen. I will tackle a few of your points with my thoughts on them. I'll follow your post through with observations on the points that seem important to me. "for most people it's all about proving oneself right and the other guy wrong than anything else" For me its about proving the point (not myself) right when the other guy's point is wrong. When the person gets personal without back-up (GWB is a liar, likes to kill people, America is bad etc.) I will do my best to make them look like a chump. Kind of petty, but I look at it like the person attacked a friend or family member. If they have back-up it is different, but most of the time it is a drive-by kind of thing. "But if I do nothing but look for minor inconsistencies or inaccuracies in other people's posts, I will surely miss any possibility of learning anything or understanding anyone else's viewpoint" They are generally major when I point them out. In the case that started this conversation (which is a good one I think) I saw a major difference in what was said and your response. The guy specifically pointed out "controlling the radicals" within the Arab population, and I though that the opposite of lumping them all together. You have explained your position, but my reaction was to what I had read from the exchange. "But being anti-Israel or anti-American is not the same as endorsing the goals of the Jihad movement" Paying the one's who kill innocent civilians is just as bad. Your point that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is the reason may be true, but completely irrelevent imo. "Does the collapse of Saddam's regime cause great damage to Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations?" Absolutely. Not as directly as dismantling the Taliban. But it sends a STRONG MESSAGE that their methods and tactics are no longer acceptable in a civilized world. Harbor them, help them, support them and pay the price. It's hard for a pissed off terrorist in the middle of the desert to do much harm. Give him money and a suitcase full of Anthrax and he can do some damage. That is the immediate effect. The long term effect, and even more important aspect is the example that will be set by allowing a people to prosper under their own rule. The resentment these people have been spoon fed through state controlled media creates resentment and deflects from the real issue that is holding the people back, which is basically the dictators and ruling parties hording the wealth and limiting the options of their people. I STRONGLY BELIEVE that all people are capable of peace, prosperity and freedom, but do not see how they can achieve it with the orgy of misinformation (particularly against the U.S.) that their governments feed them. To believe that the U.S. and Isreal are in better shape than them because we are genetically superior or that we are so damn crafty that we can lie cheat and steal to the top is assenine imo. Freedom and democracy are what does it. Now Iraq will have the chance. We did them a huge favor, and it looks like the Iraqi citizens themselves agree. The other Arabs don't. Many were not even shown the happy Iraqi's in the street. Because their people might want some of that too. "A lot of people in the Middle East believe that we are at war with Islam" They are wrong. Our President has said it is not so and I believe him. If he is proven to be wrong I will jump to the other side, but that is not the American way and it is ludicrous for an educated person to presume this is what we are doing. When the anti-American protestors agree with this LIE it only prolongs the misery of the people we want to help. It is offensive to me for educated people to give this any credibility. "We have the opportunity to change their minds" That is EXACTLY what the President is attempting to do. If the likes of France, Russia, China and Germany would help spread the message instead of undermining it their minds could be changed much easier and quicker. I can only surmize that they do not want their minds changed. It is the only conclusion that I can draw. To keep things as they are in the middle east is a disservice to everyone in the world in my view. Particularly fpr the people in the middle east. Truth, education, open information is the key. Religiously based governments, kingdoms and dictators don't allow this. "We can show by our actions that we do not intend to occupy Iraq" We will. We also could believe the President until he GIVES REASON to do otherwise. Again, if others joined his message it would be much stronger. But they chose not to, and by extension offer their support for the status quo. "Or we can fan the flames of anti-American sentiment by not even taking a breath between the fall of Hussein and beginning to threaten Syria" If Syria has given weapons to Iraq and taken their leaders in for refuge, THEY NEED TO BE THREATENED. This hysterical talk like we are going to march right in there is ridiculous. But make no mistake. The actions in Afghanistan and Iraq should be taken seriously by all who think their methods are acceptable in today's world. I think the real result is the Syrias of the world will find it better to play fairly and join the civilized world. But if they house people who will do harm to the U.S. we will eventually come after them. Note that North Korea has now changed their position of unilateral talks with the United States. It is NOT a coincidence. Time will tell, but the duplicitous demos that said no unilateral action in Iraq (even though it was NEVER uniliateral), and then said we SHOULD take unilateral action in NK are going to look like idiots. There are many who only attack their political enenmies whether they are right or wrong, and these people are going to look bad. Maybe GWB will be proven to have acted incorrectly, but to me he has LEAD the nation and the world with courage since 9-11-01. That was the date that the rules changed, and HE decided we would go after these sources of anti-American hatred and confront it head on. Courageous (because there are so many who would not) and extremely logical. We will see who is right, but every dire prediction so far has been proven wrong. "Our actions in may very well end up doing more to aid the Jihadists' cause than to harm it. I pray for the latter outcome, but I fear the former" I think your fear is unfounded. What the middle east needs is a good success story. And I believe the Iraqi people can provide that. Scott