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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (168061)	4/18/2003 3:58:24 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1573827

Civilians are civilians. It doesn't matter if they previously served in the military or may serve in the military at some time in the future. Even the text you quote mentions both refuseniks and children and then says the number of refuseniks is so low that they can be considered collateral damage. But the number of children is not low. And of course all the other civilians are still civilians. And calling anyone's death collateral damage is ridiculous when Hammas specifically and deliberately targets civilians. Tim

To: Thomas M. who wrote (168061)	4/18/2003 4:05:12 PM
From: i-node	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1573827

Given the number of refuseniks past and present (circa 1000) out of a population of 5 million there is only a 1 in a 5000 chance of hitting a civilian. This is in fact a much better collateral damage ratio than that which Israel achieves when targeting Hamas or Jihad members, or even American/UK forces in the gulf. This is a morally bankrupt argument and I can't believe that any thinking person would see it as anything else. There is no comparison between the routine, intentional targeting of civilians by Palestinian terrorists (and I would argue that the brainwashed suicide bombers are themselves victims of Palestinian terrorism, as they been convinced by the true Palestinian terrorists to believe what they are doing is honorable) and civilian casulaties at Israel's hands in its attempts to defend itself from Palestinian murderers.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (168061)	4/18/2003 6:24:38 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1573827

There are two problems with such an argument - refuseniks and children. Those under 17 have not served, and like refuseniks, may chose not to involve themselves in armed immoral actions like the rest of the nation. They thus remain civilians and illegitimate targets. To target those who have not had a chance to change their minds by 17 is to assume things about them before inflicting a fatal punishment, and this is morally dubious. You'll note that this article is from a European media outlet. No American outlet would ever be caught dead taking this persective. In fact, American media has made sure that we see the Israelis as the good guys,and only the good guys, while our gov't has made Israel the regional superpower. And now Israel tries to manipulate the US so that it can determine our foreign policy. ted