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Politics : Canadian Political Free-for-All -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: SofaSpud who wrote (2498)	4/18/2003 11:23:26 PM
From: SofaSpud	Respond to of 37182

A further note: Reps who had done their pennance in the wilderness pre. '84, who were well acquainted with all the discontent -- e.g. Mazinkowski -- found themselves unable, even at the height of ostensible "power", to prevent the implementation of policies their electors disagreed with in a profound way. Hence the outcome of the '93 election. Don and Harvie may very well have tried to state the case for their electors, but no one who mattered gave a s%@t. So why would we want shills from a PR list to "represent" us?

To: SofaSpud who wrote (2498)	4/19/2003 2:16:34 PM
From: marcos	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 37182

Yes right, initiative is the term, not referendum ... though i think the plan was, the same philosophy would open government to setting up the latter as well, on occasion [?] .... they've had other less glorious propositions in Alta California, one called proposition 187 that barred government from providing services to mexicanos, right down to driving licenses, education, everything ... it passed, then was struck down by the supreme court who pointed out that, doh, immigration is a federal matter ... only lasting effect it had was to stimulate disgust of chicanos with Wilson's republican party, to which they would naturally be attracted according to its stated principles ... it is getting them out to vote, too, and as the demographics change - those who were ten years then are of voting age now - it will continue to influence toward democratic participation ... good ole Law of Unintended Consequences again Jesús González would have been about thirteen years then - #reply-18859356 Prop-rep - yes that is how it works, legislators under it are sort of appointed from party lists according to the overall percentage of vote, and they do tend to be party faithful .... this can turn out well, or poorly, depending on the individuals - in México 200 of the 500 in the Cámara are 'elected' this way, the other 300 directly in ridings ... New Zealand is very close to the same system ... it works, all in all, i think for every negative in it you can point to something positive, and as always the results of process come from the quality of individuals involved, more than anything ..... the Fox government started out with some valuable people who could not have been there under a first past the post system, at the same time there remain some real old prizes of demented robolucionarios ... net effect was positive i think, there would have been more of the latter under f.p.t.p. Only albertan name i know among the ones you mention is Don Mazankowski, he was a good man, had the respect of opposition, able to get intelligent things done in bipartisan manner ... an excellent prime ministre he could be, i remember people saying ..... i had family who were Alberta Liberals from before the days of Laurier, supporting reciprocity and decentralised control, rights of the provinces, etc .... the one most active swung toward Aberhart provincially, just before or during the second war i think, and then swung back later over something, was a member of the Liberal party till he died, though ... would he be were he starting now, i don't think so, they have strayed from small-l liberal, the root of which means free in latin For every party hack you don't like in Alberta getting to the commons under prop-rep, there will be another you do like getting a seat from New Brunswick or northern Ontario, maybe more than one .... ? - who knows, this would be under ongoing change as well .... just musing on the idea, i have no formed position on it .... the system could make for a fragmented house incapable of decisive action, at the same time as it gave representation to minorities who would have less or no voice in parliament without it