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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: KyrosL who wrote (95212)	4/20/2003 3:06:03 PM
From: XBrit	Respond to of 281500

<<It is obvious by now that America derives little, if any, economic benefit from its power, compared to the costs. If such expansion weakens the American economy, it cannot be sustained>> Collapse under the economic weight of its own political ambitions. Isn't that basically how every great empire or world domination in history has finally ended? The British, the Romans, all of them. I too see exactly this as the end-game. The US economy is increasingly an apple rotting from the inside. Over-consumption, excessive debt, excessive imports, excessive military spending, and an aging population with enormous unfunded retirement entitlements. Japan now is the US in 20 years.

To: KyrosL who wrote (95212)	4/20/2003 3:17:23 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

By all means enlighten us to the obvious. I am all ears and please make it more than a few lines long. ST

To: KyrosL who wrote (95212)	4/20/2003 6:16:02 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If such expansion weakens the American economy, it cannot be sustained, and Europe may have the last laugh. Only to the extent that they could see the US reduced in power compared with a rising China as a new economic world powerhouse. Europe hasn't been able to really compete with the US with the bureaucratic socialism on the continent, how are they going to compete with China which is even less concerned with social ideals than the US ? The Chinese economic growth figures are no doubt exaggerated, but Asian growth is very real. And let's be perfectly clear, the European vision of the USA as some kind of laissez-faire capitalist nightmare is quite erroneous. Ask anyone who has a small business what they pay in workmen's compensation insurance, or about all the other real costs of doing legitimate business in the US and you'll find that social costs weigh fairly heavily in the US, they're just distributed differently. I certainly hope that this administration comes to its senses concerning the real costs of this preemptive military doctrine, but Europe.... they're fighting the "last war" with this anti-American capitalism obsession of theirs.

To: KyrosL who wrote (95212)	4/20/2003 7:14:38 PM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

It is obvious by now that America derives little, if any, economic benefit from its power, compared to the costs. If such expansion weakens the American economy, it cannot be sustained The first Gulf War (and the most expensive) was not funded by the US. The American Defense budget has been reduced 8 of the last 11 years.

To: KyrosL who wrote (95212)	4/20/2003 7:38:04 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

It is obvious by now that America derives little, if any, economic benefit from its power, compared to the costs. If such expansion weakens the American economy, it cannot be sustained, and Europe may have the last laugh. This is the War of Order against Disorder. Order is necessary for continued globalization, which America does benefit from. Thus it is far from obvious that America derives no benefits from this war - even if you discount the obvious benefit of now longer needing base troops in semi-hostile countries like SA to 'contain' Iraq. We now have an admitedly larger job of stationing troops in Iraq itself, but one which may yield a large Arab ally, which would be a great benefit. Furthermore, the entire war did not take up 1% of US GDP - the US economy is so large that it is hard to make cases for imperial overstretch à la the Spanish Empire except with handwaving. We just conquered a country the size of California in three weeks with 200,000 troops. Not the conditions to talk about overstretch.