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To: Jim (Hijacked) who wrote (14905)4/20/2003 11:38:07 PM
From: rrufff  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 21614
 
Since you seem to be obsessed with pedophilia, let's go with an example you would understand. There have been Priests who use New Testament teachings to justify the fact that they have diddled little boys. I do believe, although I don't have any proof I'll admit, that there have been more pedophile priests than there have been Rabbis having sex with 3 year olds. This probably relates to the unnatural requirement of celibacy, but that's a whole 'nother topic. Do you agree?

Many news articles relate that formerly respected Priests have been accused and convicted of pedophilia, often saying (commentary like in the Talmud) to his victim, "You are doing this for the church to show your devotion."

My question to you is do you see how absurd it is to say from these facts that Catholicism or the New Testament (as commented upon by Priests) encourages or condones pedophilia? Following even further as you do, would that mean that Catholicism should be wiped out, that Catholics should be killed or murdered? After all, doesn't the word of Jesus flow directly through the Papacy to his priests?

I also want to make sure that other coherent readers understand that I don't believe that Catholics should be killed, murdered, etc., are not subhuman, are not going to hell for the actions of a few hundred pedophile priests even though Priests are Chosen by the Papacy, the direct Messenger of the Lord.



To: Jim (Hijacked) who wrote (14905)4/20/2003 11:42:47 PM
From: rrufff  Respond to of 21614
 
Jim, I wanted to repeat this just in case you didn't see my post. I know you love statistics that encourage hatred.

I know you claim that Jews are subhuman because some Rabbis about 2000 years ago seem to have WRITTEN about pedophilia. I hope you don't kill any Catholics after you read this.

thelinkup.com



To: Jim (Hijacked) who wrote (14905)4/20/2003 11:44:33 PM
From: rrufff  Respond to of 21614
 
Hey Jim,

Sorry your computer is not working well and you had trouble with that link. Here it is for your convenience.

Catholic Pedophile Priests:
The Effect on U.S. Society
By Tom Economus
+ HOME + ARCHIVES +

Current estimates of Roman Catholic priests in the U.S.= 49,000 to 50,000

Estimates of pedophile priests = 3,000 (6.1%) to 8,000 (16.3%)

188 Dioceses in the U.S. Divide 3,000 by 188 = 16 perpetrators per diocese
Divide 8,000 by 188 = 42 perpetrators per diocese

Current experts claim a pedophile could abuse 200-265 children in a lifetime.
200 x 16 perps/diocese = 3,200 victims/diocese
200 x 42 perps/diocese = 8,400 victims/diocese
3,200 victims/diocese x 188 dioceses = 601,600 victims in U.S.
8,400 victims/diocese x 188 dioceses = 1,579,200 victims in U.S.

Average American family consists of 4-6 people
(3,200 victims/diocese) 601,600 victims x 4 family members = 2,406,400 indirect victims
60l,000 victims x 6 family members = 3,609,600 indirect victims
(8,400 victims/diocese) 1,579,200 x 4 family members = 6,316,800 indirect victims
1,579,200 x 6 family members = 9,475,200 indirect victims

These numbers are a reflection of immediate family only and do not reflect the indirect victims within the parishes that are affected.

188 Bishops are responsible for the pain of at least 601,600 direct victims and as many as 9,475,200 indirect victims — a total of as many as 10,076,800 people. Clearly, something is wrong.

Additional information:
Using the lower numbers the number of direct victims and survivors alone could populate a city larger than Boston. Using the higher numbers, it would be the fourth largest city in the U.S.— one between the size of Houston and Chicago.

Note: These figures were compiled by the late Linkup president from many sources, and unfortunately, he did not cite all of them. The number of dioceses and priests in the country are widely known. The percentage that are pedophile priests remains controversial; AW Richard Sipe, one of the leading experts, estimates around 6%.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual abuse, (a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in general), a study by Catholic researchers supported by major religious orders, has found. The study found that sisters have known sexual abuse less in childhood, dispelling what the authors call an "anti-Catholic" canard that girls fled to convents to escape sexual advances. During religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns experienced "sexual trauma," ranging from rape to exploitation to harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that kind. NCR, 1/15/99
See The Nuns' Stories for more information.
The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, Physicians 6%, Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%.
The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of clergy said they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women were harassed by clergy colleagues.
The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy have "inappropriate sexual behavior or contact" with clergy and employees.
The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers experienced some type of sexual harassment.
The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the work place have been sexually harassed by male clergy.
The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually abused members.
In the Roman Catholic Church there are over 800 priests that have been removed from ministry as a result of allegations against them. We also know of 1,400 insurance claims on the books and that the Church has paid out over $1 billion in liability with an estimated $500 million pending. One noted expert claims that there are over 5,000 priests with some type of allegation against them. If this is true, then there are at least 1,000,000 direct victims of clergy sexual abuse and between 4-6 million indirect victims in the U.S.

Our institutional churches, who have proclaimed themselves to be the moral backbone of society, have failed all of us. We need to continue to bring them to moral and civil accountability. I think we might want to pray for them as well.

thelinkup.com



To: Jim (Hijacked) who wrote (14905)4/20/2003 11:57:33 PM
From: rrufff  Respond to of 21614
 
Hey Jim,

Isn't that amazing. You were worried about a few
Rabbis from 2000-3000 years ago. Looks like pedophiles are closer to you than you had hoped for. Please show mercy on your Catholic brethren.

thelinkup.com

Current estimates of Roman Catholic priests in the U.S.= 49,000 to 50,000

Estimates of pedophile priests = 3,000 (6.1%) to 8,000 (16.3%)

188 Dioceses in the U.S. Divide 3,000 by 188 = 16 perpetrators per diocese
Divide 8,000 by 188 = 42 perpetrators per diocese

Current experts claim a pedophile could abuse 200-265 children in a lifetime.
200 x 16 perps/diocese = 3,200 victims/diocese
200 x 42 perps/diocese = 8,400 victims/diocese
3,200 victims/diocese x 188 dioceses = 601,600 victims in U.S.
8,400 victims/diocese x 188 dioceses = 1,579,200 victims in U.S.

Average American family consists of 4-6 people
(3,200 victims/diocese) 601,600 victims x 4 family members = 2,406,400 indirect victims
60l,000 victims x 6 family members = 3,609,600 indirect victims
(8,400 victims/diocese) 1,579,200 x 4 family members = 6,316,800 indirect victims
1,579,200 x 6 family members = 9,475,200 indirect victims

These numbers are a reflection of immediate family only and do not reflect the indirect victims within the parishes that are affected.

188 Bishops are responsible for the pain of at least 601,600 direct victims and as many as 9,475,200 indirect victims — a total of as many as 10,076,800 people. Clearly, something is wrong.

Additional information:
Using the lower numbers the number of direct victims and survivors alone could populate a city larger than Boston. Using the higher numbers, it would be the fourth largest city in the U.S.— one between the size of Houston and Chicago.

Note: These figures were compiled by the late Linkup president from many sources, and unfortunately, he did not cite all of them. The number of dioceses and priests in the country are widely known. The percentage that are pedophile priests remains controversial; AW Richard Sipe, one of the leading experts, estimates around 6%.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual abuse, (a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in general), a study by Catholic researchers supported by major religious orders, has found. The study found that sisters have known sexual abuse less in childhood, dispelling what the authors call an "anti-Catholic" canard that girls fled to convents to escape sexual advances. During religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns experienced "sexual trauma," ranging from rape to exploitation to harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that kind. NCR, 1/15/99
See The Nuns' Stories for more information.
The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, Physicians 6%, Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%.
The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of clergy said they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women were harassed by clergy colleagues.
The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy have "inappropriate sexual behavior or contact" with clergy and employees.
The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers experienced some type of sexual harassment.
The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the work place have been sexually harassed by male clergy.
The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually abused members.
In the Roman Catholic Church there are over 800 priests that have been removed from ministry as a result of allegations against them. We also know of 1,400 insurance claims on the books and that the Church has paid out over $1 billion in liability with an estimated $500 million pending. One noted expert claims that there are over 5,000 priests with some type of allegation against them. If this is true, then there are at least 1,000,000 direct victims of clergy sexual abuse and between 4-6 million indirect victims in the U.S.

Our institutional churches, who have proclaimed themselves to be the moral backbone of society, have failed all of us. We need to continue to bring them to moral and civil accountability. I think we might want to pray for them as well.