Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Idea Of The Day -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: sandeep who wrote (44085)	4/23/2003 1:03:09 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 50167

I think it’s not an intellectually sound assertion that Islamic men get too horny around unveiled women,!!! ggg <<The idea that Kashmiris have been subjected to "unspeakable atrocities" is ridiculous. In fact, Indian govt has done everything to the contrary. It forbade non-Kashmiri indians from owning land in Kashmir; it allowed terrorist infiltrators from Pakistan to threaten and kill Hindus from the Kashmir region - which drove away most of the hindus from that area leaving the region mostly muslim. The atrocities have been mostly conducted by the terrorists coming in from Pakistan. That is the evil nation which needs to be stopped from destroying what once was a beautiful place.>> Kashmiris have been subjected to unspeakable atrocities in the sense that they have been inhibited from choosing which nation they wished to be a part of or want to be free from the high handedness of Pakistanis and Indians. The issue concerning Kashmir would be resolved tomorrow if a comprehensive referendum were granted however that won't come about because it is generally known that the mostly Muslim (whilst a tragedy the fleeing Pandits did not affect the demography of the state to such an extent) state would vote to become a part of Pakistan or even independence. By refusing to allow the people to decide their own future India has condemned Kashmir to become the war-torn region that it has become. Right of self determination and self rule is a very basic right, Kashmir movement has been bastardised by the radical elements of Islamic groups. Like you and I have a free will so should the Kashmiris of the valley have a right to decide their future political status. It was in general agreement from Nehru and the early leadership of India that some sort of freedom will be given to them. If the indigenous population does not support a particular activity then cross-border infiltration will be bound to annihilate. Kashmir is a great land but the Vale of Kashmir and Jammu are two different lands. Kashmir is a political issue as evinced by the number of UN security resolutions. India is the greatest democracy but has to grant the freedom to the Kashmiris to decide its own future.Sandeep as a Pakistani I take a lot of stick from my country men and others for my hetrodox views. But I am continually surprised by the outburst of emotion I often detect in Indians when discussing my country. We are neighbours in the Sub-continent and Pakistan is a successful reality that has provided for 140 mn Muslims. Kashmir must have the right to decide whether it wants to join this nation. This evil nation must soon host Vajaypee when might come for the SAARC conference. The continual underestimation and brandishing of Pakistan is what prevents a comprehensive dialogue between the two nations. Moderates of any stripe, Hindu, Jew, Christian, or Muslim are worthy people in my eyes and to call Pakistan an evil nation is a rejection of the inherent tolerance that was a fundamental value in the creation of the Indian nation. Loyalty and mercenary actions are a part and parcel of Pakistan, the "evil nation". The ancestors (my father included) of modern Pakistanis (the martial races) served in the British army with distinction and we have been staunch allies of America since independence. That is why America relied on us after September 11 and still does. No nation is happier than Pakistan with the eviction of Saddam and Arafat, the two best friends of India. During Indira Gandhi's last rites Arafat wept for his "sister" and no nation was considered to be a closer Indian ally than Iraq. <<Radical Islam is the problem we need to root out. This Iraq liberation still has the potential to turn out terribly if Shiites come to power and make women wear burkhas; not allow them to learn - just like in most other muslim countries.>> You can't just kill radical Islam in a population, for indeed it must be rooted out (and it is inherently self-destructive) through a two way dialogue. A nation’s greatness need not be yelled, look at the United States of America. The greatness of that nation is derived from its economic and strategic prowess over the entire globe and some nations are not great. One cannot buy greatness off the shelf by considering others to be minnows, in this regard underestimating Pakistan is of no use. America sent in 250,000 troops and swept through Iraq. India massed a million troops across the Pakistani border and blinked first. What was the point and bring it again. You can call it an evil nation but I don’t think there is anything evil about India & Pakistan. Both are having problems by denying their serious problems by engaging in a belligerency that is disastrous to the region. Is Kashmir worth for 400mn Indians to live under a dollar a day, Indian girls going out working for 50dollars a month 18hrs a day in the Gulf. In Pakistan not a single girl is allowed to be sent to the Gulf to work for less than 500 dollars when working in the Gulf, Pakistan may escape from here and there because of economic migration. I wish the two nations would stop the childish competition over who has a bigger -ick and start concentrating on their problems. The editor of FT went to India and returned by kissing on the ground of Heathrow airport and kissing the ground for not being born in such a poverty stricken nation. Radical Islam is a danger let there be no doubt about it. However the core solutions have to be provided in those regions where Muslims are at the other side of the stick. To ameliorate the issue there has to be concessions granted to the populations of Kashmir, Chechnya and Palestine. Out of many places one can accuse the mushrooming of radical Islam. One place of recent history where radical Islam flourished was in the Dar-ul-Looms of Deoband, India. Indeed India has been the hotbed of the Islamic political movement over a hundred years ago. The father of the Indian non-violence movement did not miss a chance to use this radicalisation during the Khilafat. What Mahatma Gandhi had to do with the Khilafat movement of the Muslims and joined hands with the Mohammed Ali brother in the revolt, which induced thousands of Indian Muslims to travel to Turkey and restore the disestablished Ottoman Caliphate. I stick my neck out and write about Islam in the heartlands of the Islamic world. But despite my criticism of radical Islam I am still a patriot. I have yet to find an Indian who goes to the extent criticising the situation in India as I do to Pakistan. The wool and bandage around the eyes of the educated Indians about the state of their nation is astounding. There are two threats to the world; one is radical Islam to innocents however the other perhaps even more pressing is the millions sleeping on the streets of Bombay. The forgotten heroes of the Sub-continent are the untouchables and the three hundred million Shudras steamrolled by the elite castes of India. The beautiful India shown on the screens of our television sets has no parallel in real life. I detect similar levels of poverty in Pakistan and I highlight it, whereas Indians seem merely content propounding the line of a prosperous modern India uninhibited by a caste system and a poverty line of 400 mn ppl living under $ a day. Biahr, Orissa and Bombay with inner squalors of Calcutta are some places if you need to check. <<This Iraq liberation still has the potential to turn out terribly if Shiites come to power and make women wear burkhas; not allow them to learn - just like in most other muslim countries. But wait, I think these women are forced to wear burkhas by their husbands BECAUSE they are afraid that other muslim men will rape them if they find them beautiful. That was the reason this tradition started in the first place... >> The hijab and burka is not an Arab tradition let me make some clarification. It is a Turkish tradition imposed on Islam and it traces its roots to Orthodox Byzantine and the Sassanian Zoroastrian… I think it’s not an intellectually sound assertion that Islamic men get too horny around unveiled women, perhaps they are around in your area but my Muslim friends don’t get horny in my surroundings. To involve such conjectures in a thread known for historical relevance cannot be helpful to this tread. To caste a nation or a people as a bunch of idiots is a self-denial of the worst kind. Whatever spin applied by the Arab street it cannot be denied that the Iraqis are relatively happy that the yoke of slavery has been lifted from their backs. It is very naïve to say that Iraqis will be ruled by a Shi’ite government rather it is very shallow because Shi’ites are openly asking for America to leave but Ayatollah Sistani, through my sources in Kuwait, is asking privately for more troops. In public they say something, but in private they have different desires. For public consumptions they don’t want to be seen sharing the bed with Americans however in private they realise that they need America to bring their country back on track. The Muslims you speak of are equally matched by the 140mn strong minority in India. The 70mn India women Muslims are as fervent in their belief as any other Muslims and they at times take up the burka as well. One can't impose Hindu values on a Muslim population and the whole essence of freedom is to allow the right of self-determination to be extended to all populations. The critical factor of the Iraq conflict is that even though now the Shi'ites are agitating for a theocratic regime, at least now under American rule they are ably to freely express these sort of desires. Let us imbibe tolerance and refrain from casting stones until we can look at our own backyard... Until these radical crooks disappear lets not pick dome habits from them. Global citizens have no country they should not be loved by anyone, a good global citizen is marked by hatred by his own countryman for being un accommodative to the wrongs of the country and critical about other wrongs too, in last six years I have learned this nicely that once you become too likeable you may be accommodating too much of extreme views, the best judge of moderate view is that you are rarely liked and your positions are continuously devoured by one group or the other. Since our vision is global earth we are in the forefront of the charge to bring better opportunities ( the little we can) for every Hindu and every Kashmiri, which is what we preach here. I have always said Hindu blood is as noble as Muslim blood, anywhere it is spilled it is crime and this crime if militants from Pakistan commit it should and will not go unpunished in a similar vein if military control population of Kashmir through draconian measures that receives our equal condemnation.

To: sandeep who wrote (44085)	4/23/2003 1:22:25 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 50167

Pakistan urges India to participate in 1600 Kms long gas pipeline project (Updated at 2000 PST) ISLAMABAD: Foreing Minister, Khurseed Mehmood, has offered to participate in a India-Turkmenistan gas pipeline project, said a report on Wednesday, reported GEO TV. Since the tension in the south Asia regions has diminished over last several weeks, we desire India to talk part in the India-Turkmenistan gas pipeline project worth billions of US dollars. He said Pakistan is ready to international level guarantee India for protection of the 1600 Kilo Meters long pipeline that is to be completed with the stipulated time of 23 years.