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To: Dale Baker who wrote (689)	4/26/2003 5:08:57 AM
From: epicure	Respond to of 20773

This sounded interesting: sonoma.edu bradfordstouramerica.com bradfordstouramerica.com

To: Dale Baker who wrote (689)	4/26/2003 5:17:53 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

Here is something good: Evangelical Christians (other than Fundamentalists): Evangelical Christianity is a broad tent and contains a range of diverse beliefs. Most regard Fundamentalism as representing the conservative wing of Evangelical Christianity, which in turn represents the conservative wing of Christianity. Unfortunately, there are no generally accepted, precise definitions for the terms "Fundamentalist," and "Evangelical," or "conservative Christian." Thus, this section will necessarily remain vague. Evangelicals, exclusive of the Fundamentalist wing, typically believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, but with a number of qualifications. They believe in historical Protestant beliefs, but have modified some of them. For example, Many reject the historical view of Hell as a place of never-ending physical torture; they now view Hell as a place of separation from God. Some have abandoned the historical view that all individuals who are unsaved during their lifetime will go to Hell. They feel that sending persons to Hell who have not had a chance to hear and accept the Gospel is profoundly immoral. It is an act that God is incapable of doing. They feel that God has provided some mechanism by which people who have not heard the Gospel can still be saved after their death, and attain Heaven. On homosexuality, many non-Fundamentalist Evangelicals have beliefs that are slightly more liberal than those of Fundamentalists. They believe that: All homosexual activity is inherently sinful, whether it is done by singles or by gays or lesbians involved in committed relationships. Homosexual behavior is unacceptable. A Barna Research poll conducted in 2001-AUG showed that only 2% of Evangelical Christians (including Fundamentalists) regarded homosexuality as "an acceptable lifestyle." (In contrast, the general American population is evenly split on this matter.) The poll question is deeply flawed, because it can be interpreted in many ways. But it does indicate the degree of opposition to the acceptance of homosexuality as normal and natural for a minority of adults. Many biblical passages condemn all forms of homosexual behaviors, using inclusive terms such as "sodomite" or "homosexual." Some refer to the many references to Sodom in the Bible as implying that the inhabitants of Sodom were destroyed by God for their many sinful behaviors, only one of which was their homosexual activity. There are no committed, consensual homosexual relationships described in the Bible. Many recognize that sexual orientations do exist and are either fixed or nearly unchangeable for adults. Some even believe that people can be "born gay." Some agree with human sexuality researchers that three sexual orientations exist -- heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual. Same-sex practices are offensive to God, but not uniquely so. Homosexual behavior is one of many sinful behaviors, like assault, theft, murder, etc. Some Fundamentalists interpret 1 Corinthians 6:11, as implying that if gays and lesbians are truly saved, God will help them change their behavior and remain celibate. ............ and this: Common conclusions by Fundamentalist Christians: Fundamentalist Christians represent the conservative wing of Evangelical Christianity, which in turn represents the conservative Wing of Christianity. They typically believe in the strict inerrancy of the Bible and in historical Protestant beliefs. They interpret most biblical passages literally. They view the Bible as the Word of God fully applicable to present day situations. Many believe: Whether a sexual act is a sin or not is largely defined by the act itself. e.g. all homosexual activity is inherently sinful, irrespective of the relationship between the two persons. Most heterosexual activity is not sinful if it is done within a marriage. Many biblical passages condemn all forms of homosexual behaviors, using inclusive terms such as "sodomite" or "homosexual." God destroyed Sodom and its inhabitants because of their homosexual activity. All the men in the town wanted to have homosexual sex with the visiting angels. There are no committed, consensual homosexual relationships described in the Bible. The Bible refers to homosexual acts; it does not talk about sexual orientation. If such a thing as an unchangeable sexual orientation exists, it would have been mentioned in the Bible. Same-sex practices are uniquely offensive to God. After all, the only time that God destroyed a city was Sodom because of male citizens' homosexual sin. Homosexual behavior is one of a small group of behaviors that will prevent a person from attaining salvation and going to heaven. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says that "...neither...effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...shall inherit the kingdom of God." Other English translators substitute the term "homosexuals" here. Some Fundamentalists interpret 1 Corinthians 6:11, as stating that if gays and lesbians are truly saved, God will remove their homosexual feelings and convert them to a heterosexual orientation. Thus, no individuals who continue to engage in homosexual activities have actually been saved; all are destined for Hell after death. Others believe that gays and lesbians can change their sexual orientation through reparative counseling and prayer. Some Fundamentalist Christian organizations have invested heavily in media advertisements which emphasize that gays and lesbians can become ex-gays and leave the "homosexual lifestyle." religioustolerance.org

To: Dale Baker who wrote (689)	4/26/2003 8:27:12 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 20773

Well, I didn't want to raise a point that wasn't relevant to the original post, but I also have to say that I consider the term 'fundamentalist Christian" quite amorphous and undefined. I agree that the mediat tosses the term around almost casually, but I frankly don't know exactly what it means. There is no Christian church or sect that I know of that specifically calls itself fundamentalist, though there may be and I'm not aware of it. If you can define fundamentalist Christianity for me in a way that I can be clear whether a given person is or is not a fundamentalist Christian, then perhaps I can find such an example for you.

To: Dale Baker who wrote (689)	4/26/2003 8:37:36 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 20773

can you point to any recognized fundamentalist Christians who have expressed a tolerant view on homosexuality? That way you don't have to prove a negative (i.e. not all fundamentalists are anti-gay) but can simply cite a positive example Also, you need to clarify whether you mean "anti homosexuality" or "anti homosexuals." I do know a number of people whom you might consider fundamentalist Christians who differentiate between the practice of homesexual acts and the people who practice it. As I understand their beliefs, and I could be wrong but this is my understanding, all people, of course, are sinners, but in different ways. Homosexual acts may be sinful, but the people who sin in that way are still God's children and capable of grace and salvation The phrase "hate the sin, love the sinner" comes to mind. So if what you are asking is for a fundamentalist Christian who approves of the homosexual act, I don't know whether I know of any, which isn't at all to say they don't exist. But if you're saying find a fundamentlist Christian who doesn't hate gays, I do know some people you would probably accept as meeting both those criteria.