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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (402118)	5/2/2003 2:45:57 PM
From: sylvester80	Respond to of 769670

Agreed.

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (402118)	5/2/2003 4:21:48 PM
From: Johannes Pilch	Respond to of 769670

But unfortunately the "Christian" Church in these last days has been it's own worst enemy. It has alienated the very people we are supposed to reach with the saving message of Jesus. Not true at all. Those people were alienated from Jesus long before the modern Church. They were made aliens as far back as the Garden. Indeed, the boldness of the Church may well serve to divide the wheat from the chaff because in many places, vast numbers of sinners are entering the Church and the hearts of those who have rejected the message of the Cross are being hardened. It will be the fault of not a single Christian when heathens take their first steps in hell. Likewise, God will not be surprised one single bit when frail and flawed men are made fit for heaven. “What are YOU doing here?” will simply not be a question God will ask. And this happened because the Church became involved in politics. Jesus never was. The disciples never were. We really have no evidence that Jesus or the disciples never participated in government. Jesus certainly commanded that the disciples pay taxes, thereby causing them to participate at least in the maintenance of civil society. There is just no clear Biblical injunction against a Christian’s fulfillment of his civic duty to fully participate in society so long as he influences the society and is not conformed to it. When Jesus confronted the Pharasaical government of his time, correcting the Jewish legal views of the day, He was certainly participating in politics, just as Christians do when they take positions against murdering children. John the Baptist was literally beheaded NOT because he quietly went about his spiritual duties, avoiding confrontation with civic government. He was beheaded because he boldly challenged the sin of the civic rulers. Herodias wanted John the Baptist dead because John the Baptist told Herod himself, "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife". Mark 6:18 That is a flagrant attempt to influence leaders with morality, just as leaders attempted to influence him with their immorality. This idea that Christians lose their citizenship rights when they become Christian is quite a lot of hogwash. The real issue for me concerns why they use their citizenship. I openly fight for my freedom (and that of the heathen, actually) to self-express fully what I am, even my Christianity. This is vital to me because that is what God has put me here to do. I am not this, like, "guy" who happens to be Christian. I am a Christian who happens to be a guy. You know, I don't, like, get all in fokes faces about it, but if we get into a discussion about politics, art, music or anything, and my faith is particularly relevant, it's comming out and I am not gonna even blink about it. It causes heathens problems initially, but most get over it. They are just gonna hafta accept me for what I am if they wanna be in my sphere, or reject me if they don't. I have no problem with either, so long as I can freely do what I was put here to do EXACTLY as I was created to do it. But I ain' gon sit round while they trash mess, and treat me like I gotta tiptoe around them about Christ and stuff as they approve all manner of wickedness. Forget that mess. They don't be tiptoing around me about their wickedness, so I certainly ought not tiptoe around them about the truth, a thing that is infinitely greater than wickedness. The whole idea of stopping the unsaved from sinning through political pressure is ridiculous. In fact, I say let the unsaved sin. Well, I think you’ve quite misread what has been happening here for the last umpteen and some years. I don’t think anyone is concerned with pressuring anyone else from sin by politics. The point is to influence society such that our children can avoid living in a cesspool as they continue ministering to the lost. That many heathen are put off by our struggle for what is right is really quite immaterial. We struggle for what is indeed right, specifically we struggle not to be complicit in what is wrong. It is perhaps a sign that the heathens who are against us are truly amongst the lost and will be condemned whatever we do. My concern is not to try to impressed dead sinners by tacit acceptance of their wickedness. In fact, I am not concerned much about saving anyone because that is a thing I simply cannot do. I throw out the truth and if it takes in some heathens, then it takes. If not, then it doesn’t. If I have the freedom of law to influence society against murderous barbarism, so that I might continue boldly taking my position without fear of the heathen tendency to murder what inconveniences them, then I am going to do it. And if heathens find my utter disdain of their tendency to murder distasteful, then fine. That alone tells me where their hearts are. My concern is for the few who will see that such behavior is indeed of the devil, and that they need to repent lest they die in their sins. You be nice. I employ more direct means that are every bit as loving as yours. If you follow the same God as I, then I have no doubt He will use us both.