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To: Oeconomicus who wrote (157278)	5/15/2003 10:04:06 AM
From: zonder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 164684

Lizzie is right. Here, compare women's lives in Saddam's Iraq with Saudi Arabia (a US ally): straitstimes.asia1.com.sg 'I look at women in Saudi Arabia and I feel sorry for them. They can't learn. They can't improve themselves.' -- Ms Thuha Farook, a young woman doctor in Basra Equality of women: Iraq puts US allies to shame By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF THE NEW YORK TIMES THE White House is right that Iraq is by far the most repressive country in the Middle East, but that is true only if you are a man. To see how many Arab countries are in some ways even more repressive to women, consider how an invasion might play out. If American ground troops are allowed to storm across the desert from Saudi Arabia into Iraq, American servicewomen will theoretically not be able to drive vehicles as long as they are in Saudi Arabia and will be advised to wear an abaya over their heads. As soon as they cross the border into enemy Iraq, they will feel as if they are entering the free world: They can legally drive, uncover their heads, even call men idiots. Iraqi women routinely boss men and serve in non-combat positions in the army. If Iraq attacks with smallpox, Americans will have a woman to thank - Dr Rihab Rashida Taha, head of Iraq's biological-warfare programme, also known to weapons inspectors as Dr Germ. A man can stop a woman on the street in Baghdad and ask for directions without causing a scandal. Men and women can pray at the mosque together, go to restaurants together, swim together, court together or quarrel together. Girls compete in after-school sports almost as often as boys, and Iraqi television broadcasts women's sports as well as men's. The point is not to be soft on Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, whose rash wars and policies have killed hundreds of thousands of women as well as men. Iraqi women would be much better off with Mr Saddam gone, and in any case, the relative equality of women in Iraq has little to do with his leadership. Iraq has been civilised more than twice as long as Britain. (It was old when Babylon arose.) We should not demonise all of Iraq, just its demon of a ruler. In a region where women are treated as doormats, Iraq offers an example of how an Arab country can adhere to Islam and yet provide women with opportunities. 'I look at women in Saudi Arabia and I feel sorry for them,' said Ms Thuha Farook, a young woman doctor in Basra. 'They can't learn. They can't improve themselves.' At the Basra Maternity and Paediatric Teaching Hospital, 25 of the 26 students in obstetrics and gynaecology are women. Across town, 54 per cent of Basra University's students are female. Iraqi women who work typically get six months' maternity leave at full pay and another six months at half pay. Subsidised day care is usually available at the workplace. Female circumcision, which is still common in American allies like Egypt and Nigeria, is absent in Iraq. Aside from brutal political repression that is gender-blind, Iraqi women endure groping on crowded buses and an occasional honour killing, in which a man kills a daughter or sister for being unchaste. Honour killings typically result in a six-month prison sentence in Iraq; they sometimes go completely unpunished in other countries. A glance around any Baghdad street shows that Iraq does not have hang-ups about the female body that neighbouring countries do. A man can travel widely in the Arab world and know about women's legs only through hearsay, but careful reporting in Iraq confirms that Arab women do have knees. America's allies in the Muslim world should feel deeply embarrassed that a rogue state offers women more equality than they do. October 2002

To: Oeconomicus who wrote (157278)	5/15/2003 12:32:56 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 164684

If you want to sell out your liberty, Liz, please leave this country first. I'd rather that you leave. See the problem is, I live in the largest state in the US which is 7% of the worlds economy and I represent the standard view out here, that Bush is an idiot in the area of foreign affairs. Other states in the US need California more than we need them. We could break ourselves out into a separate country and be better off. The US needs California.