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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (99125)	5/25/2003 11:06:37 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Your notion as to why the Palestinians are attacking Israelis is, apparently, twofold: strange ideology which promotes suicide bombing and a wish to drive the Israelis into the sea. Both simply ignore the most important reason of all, the one which could be negotiated, which is the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. And the Palestinians desire for a territory of their own But John, don't you see I can readily concede that occupation is the "most important" grievance and it doesn't matter to my argument? If occupation were the only grievance, then we have a border conflict on our hands. Border conflicts can be negotiated and solved with compromise. This was the premise of Oslo. Land for peace. But while the ideology of martyrdom/sucide bombing exists in significant measure (once and for all, do you concede that they do exist?), then we do not have a border conflict, but an existential struggle. Existential struggles are not amenable to solution by compromise. 80% or 90% of Israeli Jews would gladly give up the settlements for peace. What holds them back from making their wishes known is not some inexplicable "control by extremists", but the deep-seated fear that they will give up the land and get no peace, only war and more of it & on worse terms. Hamas et. al. have been doing everything in their power to send the message that they will get only war for land, by redoubling the bombing every time the Israelis pull back or make a move towards diplomatic negotiatons. The Israelis are harshly punished for making any move in the direction you wish them to go.

To: JohnM who wrote (99125)	5/29/2003 2:56:29 AM
From: D. Long	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Your notion as to why the Palestinians are attacking Israelis is, apparently, twofold: strange ideology which promotes suicide bombing and a wish to drive the Israelis into the sea. Both simply ignore the most important reason of all, the one which could be negotiated, which is the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. And the Palestinians desire for a territory of their own. Why is it John that whenever a ceasefire is being proposed, and/or ministerial meetings between the PA and Israel are scheduled, HAMAS and Islamic Jihad pull out the stops? If the occupation by the Israelis are the prime concern, why is it that Palestinians seem intent on sabotaging every effort to end that occupation? It's no surprise to either of us that I find Nadine's reasoning to be more consistent with the facts of the matter than yours. Derek