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To: EL KABONG!!! who wrote (34403)	5/27/2003 5:53:37 AM
From: elmatador	Respond to of 74559

KJC, the most important point is to get less kW per unit of GDP. We haven't even started. The ignorant masses go for the visible. Things like re-cycling rubbish and such. But we have to look, how much less energy we are using by using more glass less cement in the construction industry or how much more energy we are using by employing aluminum as the building material. Even if more modern technologies are used that eventually decreases kW per unit of GDP, overall it doesn't mean less energy consumed. That because we fly strawberries from Africa or cut flowers from Colombia and use more jet fuel. The only real push I saw was the savings that we made when the oil shock of 1973 hit and insulation of houses become an issue in colder countries. But I can recall a guy writing that he installed a system to melt his driveway snow by heating it up!!! Perhaps he is one those guys saying that some farmer burning his field straws for next year crop is the one damaging the environment. But again, without a informed mass there's no way out.

To: EL KABONG!!! who wrote (34403)	5/27/2003 5:57:56 AM
From: elmatador	Respond to of 74559

KJC I forgot the bribe! As you know every government loves to give bribes: Reagan bribed using Star Wars Kennedy bribed using the Apollo project Bush Jr. wants to bribe using fuel cells Oh, Artificial intelligence and the 5th Generation Computer initiative are two other bribes, governments gave that I can remember.

To: EL KABONG!!! who wrote (34403)	5/27/2003 10:16:46 AM
From: yard_man	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

photovoltaics exist already -- but they are very inefficient converters of sunlight into electricity -- doesn't mean they aren't economic in some situations -- but the high capital cost limits the applicability -- also there is the energy required to manufacture them. The challenge remains for fuel cells -- which convert the chemical energy of H2 into electrical energy -- to find a cheap source of H2. Yes, air and water are plentiful, but it takes more energy to separate the H2 from these -- have to find a source where less energy input is required -- right now that means fossil fuels -- some other source is highly unlikely ... You make a good point, though, if there is another good energy source (in general) out there that we have missed the lead time to devlop it will be long -- that's why it is imperative that we start now on that and continue a push towards economic conservation and utilization of the resources that we have. My own personal view is that we are going to have to do with a little less convenience and more "appropriate" use of resources going forward.