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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: i-node who wrote (170033)	5/28/2003 12:00:40 AM
From: tejek	Respond to of 1583681

Liberalism is a much more profound ideology. WAS.. Not, "Is". There was a time when liberalism had meaning. Its still does.......its just not your meaning of the word. What happened to the concept of individual rights, particular those of minorities, the government obligation of protection of property, etc. -- the basic precepts of classical liberalism? Gone, all gone. Replaced today by a power grab. Those were the ideals. Man has a ton of ideals that he doesn't always live up to.....that shouldn't reflect on a particular ideology or be perceived as its weakness.....the weakness is with Man, not in the ideology. It has been on the wane for years; but the real collapse came in the '90s. Liberalism is dead. Hardly......there are many of us who still believe in its basic tenets. I think one can clearly see this with the recent war, in which the liberals essentially were opposed to freeing the Iraqi people from 30 years of tyranny -- keeping in mind, however, that the same liberals supported a war in Kosovo which, while justifiable, certainly was less so than was the war in Iraq. You're making things up as you go along. The conditions leading up to the Kosovo intervention are very different from those leading up to the Iraqi intervention. With Kosovo, no one put a chip on Melosevic's shoulder and then dared him to knock it off. And when he didn't knock it off, invaded Serbia anyway. If you can't see the difference, then you've lost touch with more than what you perceive as your liberalism. I think to a large extent liberals are just not very smart. But there are smart liberals who are just so mired down in an absurd ideology that they can't see the ridiculousness of it. You know who you are. What you perceive as smart liberals are the ones who supported wholeheartedly the intervention of Iraq. There is no question they are smart but they are also afraid. Many of them are from the NYC area, and/or Jewish. They see everyone now as a very real threat to us, or a danger to Israel. Their emotions are ruling their heads. They may be smart but they are not seeing the picture clearly. The danger is not from Saddam, its from ourselves.

To: i-node who wrote (170033)	5/28/2003 2:41:25 AM
From: Alighieri	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1583681

I think one can clearly see this with the recent war, in which the liberals essentially were opposed to freeing the Iraqi people from 30 years of tyranny -- keeping in mind, however, that the same liberals supported a war in Kosovo which, while justifiable, certainly was less so than was the war in Iraq. You put the justification for the war in Iraq now squarely in humanitarian terms, and of course you often speak of other nations as though they are lesser entities, to be subjugated and kept weak...which is strong proof that you don't really have an altruistic side at all. And when you attempt to feign concern for others, you are in unfamiliar territory, so you confuse the issues by comparing the Balkan conflict, a human disaster which for three years before our intervention was an active war spreading from one region to another, complete with acts of genocide, ethnic cleansing, concentration camps with starving corpse like prisoners paraded on TV, daily murder in the streets of Sarajevo and other Balkan cities, ethnic implantation by mass rape of Bosnian women, mass murder of Kosovars and Bosnians right there on prime time TV. This you contrast with the war in Iraq, a war of choice initially justified on the basis of WMD, which of course we are now unable to find, a country where we will likely discover that totalitarian regime is now replaced by anarchy, and where a dictatorship may have been one of very few forms of government able to keep the country together as an entity it never chose for itself...and the worse of all, where the acts of cruelty committed by the government where once supported by the likes of rumsfeld, bush the first and reagan, some of the same people who now would have us believe that they are trying to liberate Iraq. What a disgusting collection of unethical bastards. You refer to liberals as not smart, and yet that is really what you are...someone who thinks in simple terms and taints all he says with a tangible accumulated frustration. Your intellectual lazyness is your undoing. It drives you to simplistic BW conclusions that reek of partisan preferences. You have shown us time and again that you couldn't give a crap about Iraqis or Kosovars, anymore than you do about people around the globe who today are much worse off. Al