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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (35330)	5/28/2003 4:57:25 AM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

I believe your literal interpretation is correct , and yet as the Lord's mansion has many rooms , so does the literal translation of the "risen body" also lend itself to other direct and indirect allusions of the "Somatikos" as a body of believers living faithfully in the spirit of direct lineage to the light of the "Lord" as revealed in the character and revelations of Christ, or the "Annointed One" . When the belief is strong , the body of the believers united in the spirit becomes unbreakable and deathless as the Lord becomes the willing servant , to those who willing serve the cause of the prince of peace, his son . One must remember that God is present everywhere at all times , and on beyond time itself, no real beginning or end. He seeks those who seek him always , eternally. (and from beyond and back again! Yes he can do that !;) CHRISTIANS AS THE BODY (EKKLESIA) OF THE ANOINTED ONE; as in Rom.12.4-5: "For as we [each] have many parts in one body (soma), but the parts do not all have the same function, so we the many are one body (soma) in the Anointed One and partners one with another." And in Col.1.18: "...and he is the head of the body (soma), the community; who is [the] beginning, firstborn from the dead." And again there is ample room to see this term "somatikos" also allows for the wider figurative sense without compromising or detracting from the words of Jesus at all , in fact it lends even deeper meaning and gives even more "sense" & reason to find reconciliation thru a sense of spirtual "family" that finds peace thru bonding with the spirit of the light of the word. Perhaps what is literal in reality is that experience many saints have all alluded to , as being filled with the light of the Lord, as I think Jesus had been and tried to convey as the legacy of each sincere person of good faith who seeks the truth. This is something only your heart can tell you , or you can argue endlesssly without seeing the light at all. THE HUMAN "BODY" IN A FIGURATIVE SENSE, other than as part of the body of the Anointed One; for example, Lk.11.34-36: "The lamp of the body (soma) is your eye. When your eye is faultless, your whole body (soma) is bright; but when it is evil your body (soma) also is dark. So beware, lest your light is darkness. So then, if your whole body (soma) is bright, without any part dark, the whole will be bright, as when a shining lamp illuminates you." The idea of an eternal "Physical" body , and the fight to maintain this one and only literal interpretation is quite untenable and especially demeans and ignores the nature of man's higher gifts ...chiefly among them of being able to rise above the petty squabbling over the limited mundane and gross sensory impressions into the domain of a rapturous recieving of an "idea" or logos that transcends and unites all thru the Holy Spirit behind the mere corporeal seperateness that , I think Jesus was directing men's attention too. It is much better to give than to recieve , especially when there are bodies less fortunate than yourself , for instance ...but what makes this "better" , lies somewhere else than just in the flesh . Though one must truely give without looking in the mirror when one does give and give with no thought of reward , even the pleasure of giving . One gives things away freely when one has found that path leading to a greater "body" of things not of matter but of spirit . From the earliest age , Jesus showed always interest in the knowledge of God , being drawn to converse with the priests and Rabbais in Jerusalem when visiting there . Here you see the firm planting of this in his soul to seek to clarify for himself , the meaning of the scritpture , until he became the essence of it himself when afater being born literally into the spirit , he fasts in the desert then returns to share the light with others , that is there but must be awakened. ...and blessed be the peacemakers , for they shall inherit the kingdom of ____? Better seek to clarify a little more for yourself, as Jesus once had to do out alone with the "Father" in his wilderness. ;-)

To: Greg or e who wrote (35330)	5/28/2003 6:02:28 AM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Oh forgot to share the link on the greek translations ntwords.com do with it as you will, but try not to "sin" (from the greek to : miss the mark, cross over the line ) too much. I Thess. 5:21 "Examine everything carefully; hold fast that which is good." ;)

To: Greg or e who wrote (35330)	5/29/2003 12:36:44 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Greg I fully understand the argument you are presenting. First let me say this. I think it is an EXCELLENT argument for 2 reasons 1. It is perfectly logical. If I am putting forth the possibility that Christ shed His physical body at the ascension and yet the bible speaks of Him having one any time after then I must concede that Christ would have returned in that same body at 70 A.D. or show some other logical reason why He would have changed in that short time or that His return was metaphoric rather than literal - see meanings for word "parousia" sometimes translated "presence" 2. It is based upon scripture rather than the words of some man or group of men. So, in short let me make it plain to you that I think your argument is very very well placed. On the surface it would appear that I should admit that you are right and my theory foolish in light of this plain teaching and logical line of thinking. I just want you to know that I am listening and do comprehend what you have said and believe I fully understand why you said it. With that said I will tell you in my next post (off to bed tonight) why I think your argument is inconclusive rather than conclusive. I want you to know that I am trying to 'communicate' rationally without setting you off into a hyper defensive mind set and that I am assuring you that I am not in any way opposed to being corrected publicly by anything you can show me that will prove I am wrong at any point in what I believe. I am not interested in defending my 'reputation' at the price of God's truth. However, God alone can know the sincerity of what I have just said. You were right - it is NIV version that inserts the word "form" Until tomorrow - Lord willing. Brian