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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Berry Picker who wrote (35395)	6/9/2003 6:38:30 AM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

You fault me for siting the same web site called "www.infidel.org" twice but you use it to verify some confession of some St. who-ever. But Brian , if there were ever a Christian apologist especially one from the 2nd century , Justin Martyr would be your fellow in Christ ... it is in his time and with other contemporaries that the greatest follow-up testimony and defense for the revealed word for Christ against the pagan's man-made morality & philosophy are fought. He was a good man I think , and in the face of much harrassment from the various Greeks and Roman schools of Philosophy he made a great stand in defending your faith , and also against the rigidity of the Hebrew thinkers of his day . A very credible witness to the second century church , he stood firm as a witness for the Christ and one of Christianity's great evangleical apologists until his death . I'm surprised at you for having no knowledge of him ...he is one of the great early conversions of a pagan philosopher , that unable to get thru philosophy comes to know in his soul he has found the answer by the revealed word of Christ and that God can only be known thru faith in him and the Holy Ghost . It is in Justin Martyr that you find the earliest strongly centered understanding that it is not possible to come to know god thru "mere" ( a word you love so much ) abstract human constructs of Philosophy , but by the revealed word of God. Coming from the prophets (Jewish) and materializing in the flesh and life of Jesus (also Jewish) . It is with Justin Martyr you find the unique specialness concisely addressed of that divinely inspired uniqueness that separates Christianity from the pagan man-made beliefs in all it's glory . The basis of most of all your apologies brian , are very nearly mrroring those of this very early Justin Martyr's . It's a very real blessing you/we have many of his writings and discussions preserved intact . (when you are having a good day ) ;-)

To: Berry Picker who wrote (35395)	6/9/2003 7:18:07 AM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 39621

Those are good links , but no-one really wants to discredit Christianity brian , or the "faith" and this site's apologies are just as ingrained with human "reasoned contructs" of defense as any other . What greater view we are trying to arrive at here is the essential core of all the stages of man's wondering at his place in the universe and understanding of himself that has really no beginning or end, and is an evolution to more social and individual consciousness and responsibility ... this cannot be routinely approached and find so easily dismissed entire epochs of belief that in some cases lasted for 1000's of years for all these satges of man's history are part of the process and all contain some of the clues. I know certain things with my heart and some with my reason , and both tell me that all this plays out on a wider stage than your fellow and other apologists try to narrow it too. Your fellow seems eager to deal with eliminating the threat of the egyptian Osiris, Horus and Amen-Ra here in the link you provided , but do i get a hint of his not being so eager to deal with the threat of Buddha and saves it for later ? I'm just wondering here ... tektonics.org Of all the pagan copycat candidates, this is the last couple -- other than Buddha (not so eager here ?)-- that look to be a major threat. Egypt after all is not far from Palestine, and Jews did live in Egypt; it is not theoretically improbable that they could steal an idea for a Jesus from this place. But did they? The field is rife with claims, but as usual a plate of fudge stands in the middle. There is a great deal of filching of Christian terms to describe Egyptian events -------->A field rife with claims ....yep that sums alot of it up. Since he uses the word "Threat" so often , it is one of those things that is greatest of all that makes me question and doubt all of the apologies for Christianity that operate from this disadvantage . If one truely has the promise of the one Son of God in heaven and earth as one's founder , then what possible threats could possibly come your way and stand between you and the Lord ? Were the teachings of Buddha for instance so very threatening ? Threatening to what ? Threatening from whom ? Oh , those evil "barbarians" , well I see your point there . The truth of man's history is not a "them " and us configuration . Heathens , pagans and infidels were not all evil people who beat their children and fornicated like dogs in the street. They built huge empires , gathered knowledge , created art , science and wondered at the world studied it's rythms and felt it's powers just like baby Jesus did . So why all the fear of "threat" couched in this fellows writings ? And why is he just a little but hesitant when it comes to destorying the threat of Buddha ? Because it is nearing the truth of something and someone that is every equal to the rabbai Jesus in his insights and wisdom and revelation , into the realm of the human soul and psyche , but comes from an entirely different heritage , earlier timeline and platform than yours . When it comes to religion , of course there is much that needs to be grasped with the heart ...awareness of this internal world of ours, the psyche , the soul ... is where the whole thing begins in any case . Jesus was not new in approaching this ...and he di so with all the elemental and disarmingly simplicity of the Buddha his forerunner whether you admit it or not, 2500yrs later and 1.5 billion Hindus and Buddhist live to testify. There is a slow process of awakening that is seen transcending in human history .And in the end will transcend religion , unless someone does come riding down out of the clouds at last throwing thunderbolts within the darkening skies...but hasn't happened yet or for the last 2000yrs <g> Similar thinking from a different vantage , on seeking equanimity , and the other "heaven". Should one seek peace and equanimity in this life brian , or wait for the next ?

To: Berry Picker who wrote (35395)	6/9/2003 7:56:53 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Now where does this "apologist" in his links you posted to me try to dispossess Buddha /Christ kinship ? He seemed reluctant to go into that .... I'm not surprised that with all the new found zeal of the rising of a new religion finally accepted in a vast empire as Christianity achieved eventually , and with all the energy of martyrdom first and it's newness.... and promise of heavenly eternal rewards thru grace good actions etc ....and then by the force of arms and irreplaceable library burnings later (Alexandria, what a terrible loss ), that any apologist could easily depose the older egyptian Gods Horus , Amen Ra , etc ...their being from a defeated and wanning ancient and more outdated theology . The times were changing . But where , I'm curious does this fellow go in depth to depose the direct parralels of the Buddha's life and teachings , and his "apostles" . It was fastly growing over to the east and swept across Asia .An entirely different geography and earlier timeline , and yet all the same components of the teachings are remarkably present . And as Buddhism came into China , it found Taoism already present . Could it be , it cannot be done ? No Christian apologist yet has even been able to make the slightest dent in this story of the Buddha or his teachings. So there is the proof , Christianity is only one facet of a larger gem , and God did in fact send other Sons to save different parts of the world . You can only burn so many fabulous libraries you know brian<G> ;-) But I would like to see this fellows argument in any case . Or did he not make one ? I always find them very amusing...