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To: Berry Picker who wrote (35399)6/9/2003 7:05:10 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
there are many brian ...

you should be more aquainted with Justin Martyr and have read his apologies...they form a unique and insightful picture into the early persecution and slanders that were brought down upon the early Christians of the 2nd century Rome . And the new "idea" of Christianity and the person of Jesus as the Christ.... that was also seen already rising in the consciousness of the pagan poets and men of wisdom seeking perfection of their own beliefs and cosmology , which did form a basis for what followed for it is all connected brian.
wikipedia.org

CHAP. XXI.--ANALOGIES TO THE HISTORY OF CHRIST.

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth(1) of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; AEsculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre? And what kind of deeds are recorded of each of these reputed sons of Jupiter, it is needless to tell to those who already know. This only shall be said, that they are written for the advantage and encouragement(2) of youthful scholars; for all reckon it an honourable thing to imitate the gods.


he goes on to point out that Jupiter was wicked sometimes and visited earth to ravish women to produce these sons , but I see no difference of this and the evil misdeeds of Jehova that paralled Jove in the timeline . God changed as men's perception and civilization and experience moved on & changed . There is no alpha and omega , beginning or end to this , and it would be exceptional to say that all truth was cohered in Jesus Christ . He is just the latest Hero/Messiah , in a long line of them as men imagined and dreamed them up assigning more and more lofty description of virtue and of their powers ....



another you will like
ccel.org



To: Berry Picker who wrote (35399)6/9/2003 7:36:58 PM
From: 2MAR$  Respond to of 39621
 
You can also find and see the refined earlier Greek etherial & lofty idea of the creator as reflected in the writings of their greatest known poets , who were as adept in describing the "one-ness" of an omnipotent God in terms as refined as found in Christianity that may have been "Christ" centered , but hardly new or unique . These same thoughts were already felt and expressed long before Jesus allegedly arrived on the scene .

Here's Æschylus, in expounding the arrangement of his work, expressed himself also as follows respecting the only One God:

Afar from mortals place the holy God,
Nor ever think that He, like to thyself,
In fleshly robes is clad; for all unknown
Is the great God to such a worm as thou.
Divers similitudes He bears; at times
He seems as a consuming fire that burns
Unsated; now like water, then again
In sable folds of darkness shrouds Himself.
Nay, even the very beasts of earth reflect
His sacred image; whilst the wind, clouds, rain,
The roll of thunder and the lightning flash,
Reveal to men their great and sovereign Lord.
Before Him sea and rocks, with every fount,
And all the water floods, in reverence bend;
And as they gaze upon His awful face,
Mountains and earth, with the profoundest depths
Of ocean, and the highest peaks of hills,
Tremble: for He is Lord Omnipotent;
And this the glory is of God Most High.


But he was not the only man initiated in the knowledge of God; for Sophocles also thus describes the nature of the only Creator of all things, the One God:

There is one God, in truth there is but one,
Who made the heavens and the broad earth beneath,
The glancing waves of ocean, and the winds;
But many of us mortals err in heart,
And set up, for a solace in our woes,
Images of the gods in stone and brass,
Or figures carved in gold or ivory;
And, furnishing for these, our handiworks,
Both sacrifice and rite magnificent,
We think that thus we do a pious work.


And Philemon also, who published many explanations of ancient customs, shares in the knowledge of the truth; and thus he writes:

Tell me what thoughts of God we should conceive?
One, all things seeing, yet Himself unseen.


Even Orpheus, too, who introduces three hundred and sixty gods, will bear testimony in my favour from the tract called Diathecæ, in which he appears to repent of his error by writing the following:


I'll speak to those who lawfully may hear;
All others, ye profane, now close the doors!
And, O Musaeus, hearken thou to me,
Who offspring art of the light-bringing moon.
The words I tell thee now are true indeed,
And if thou former thoughts of mine hast seen,
Let them not rob thee of the blessed life;
But rather turn the depths of thine own heart
Unto that place where light and knowledge dwell.
Take thou the word divine to guide thy steps;
And walking well in the straight certain path,
Look to the one and universal King,
One, self-begotten, and the only One
Of whom all things, and we ourselves, are sprung.
All things are open to His piercing gaze,
While He Himself is still invisible;
Present in all His works, though still unseen,
He gives to mortals evil out of good,
Sending both chilling wars and tearful griefs;
And other than the Great King there is none.
The clouds for ever settle round His throne;
And mortal eyeballs in mere mortal eyes
Are weak to see Jove, reigning over all.
He sits established in the brazen heavens
Upon His throne; and underneath His feet
He treads the earth, and stretches His right hand
To all the ends of ocean, and around
Tremble the mountain ranges, and the streams,
The depths, too, of the blue and hoary sea.
He speaks indeed as if he had been an eyewitness of God's greatness. And Pythagoras agrees with him when he writes:
Should one in boldness say, Lo, I am God!
Besides the One--Eternal--Infinite,
Then let him from the throne he has usurped
Put forth his power and form another globe,
Such as we dwell in, saying, This is mine.
Nor only so, but in this new domain
For ever let him dwell. If this he can,
Then verily he is a god proclaimed.


well you can see brian that these sentiments and ideas of one God behind the powerful mystery called lifev was very much present in the thoughts & intuitions of not just the Jew , or later their offspring the "Christians". Though you find it easy to just be content with the label of "idol woshippers" & "heathens" ...it is a much wider and greater universe than that in reality . And though Christians started out by being the persecuted ones , they did more of thier fare share of suppressing the truth in the end. But the real "truth" cannot be suppressed by any one , brian, no matter how piously well-intentioned .

God does not work this way...