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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (101279)	6/12/2003 1:37:27 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Nadine, What is your take on the situation of Israeli Arabs in all of this? We have not heard much about them and their wishes/problems. Also can the Russians play a constructive role here given their past association with the Arabs and the large Russian presence in Israels population. There seems to be some affection between Russia and its expatriates and Putin was visited yesterday by a leading Jewish figure regarding Iran. I heard him(Malcolm Holmlein??sp) say Putin was aware of iranian violations and very much upset with Hamas activities given the parallel situation they face in chechnya. Mike PS I lied about banning myself from this thread. I cant shut up. I am Jewish after all.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (101279)	6/12/2003 1:48:02 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I have a good analogy but have to reach far back in time, to the end of the Civil War. Lee's surrender was statesmanlike, and Grant treated him like an equal. There were a lot of bad feelings on both sides (which remain to this day!) and it took a long time for the country to get over it (the South is gonna rise again some day!), but they shook hands like gentlemen. I don't blame Sharon for not wanting to shake Arafat's hand, but he has no reason to refuse to work with someone who doesn't have blood on his hands. He's committed himself and Israel to a two-state solution, so now everybody has to make it work. I agree that Arafat has to die. I've been saying for a long time that I don't understand why the Israelis don't just kill him. No doubt they would if they could, and "could" means political feasibility as well as physical ability. As we saw in Iraq, the Arab leaders don't want to piss off the Americans. First Afghanistan, then Iraq. Nothing like a little success to get respect.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (101279)	6/12/2003 7:14:23 PM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "If there is no solution, eventually Israel may finish its wall, withdraw behind it, and remain at war with the terrorist statelet on the West Bank and Gaza." The concept that Israel could withdraw behind a wall is the consequence of the all too human error of assuming that ones opponent will not alter his tactics in response to a change in ones own tactics. A wall will be ineffective at stopping terror against Israel for the following reasons: (a) Israel is a tiny nation. You can practically spit over a wall and hit somebody. (b) Israel has a substantial Arab minority, and it's too many millions of people for them to deport. (c) Walls have to be defended by soldiers, and those soldiers will be subjected to sniper fire, just like now occurs. (d) The terrorists have already demonstrated their ability to camoflage their bombs / shooters as Israeli soldiers, pregnant women, or devout Jews. Faking documents to get them into Israel isn't that much of a stress. (e) Israel will still provide plenty of targets overseas. And damaging those targets will economically damage Israel, which is, after all the objective. (f) As the US continues to support Israel, any attempt by Israel to eliminate Israel as a target will make the US a more attractive target. That will eventually put pressure on the US to "solve" the problem, but a US solution would not be what the Israelis want. (If they did want a US solution, they'd have already asked for US peacekeepers.) -- Carl