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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: TimF who wrote (101335)6/12/2003 7:28:31 PM
From: Bilow  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 281500
 
Hi twfowler; Re: "And the Vietnamese set themselves on fire as a protest ..."

That's harldly violent, LOL.

The rest of your long post boils down to the same error. You're comparing the first 7 weeks of a guerilla war in Iraq with the last 20 years of a guerilla war in Vietnam. When you notice that the first 7 weeks in Iraq wasn't nearly as bad as, for example, the helicopters leaving Saigon in 1975, you conclude that we're doing just fine, LOL.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you need to compare this situation to the very very very early stages of Vietnam. That is, you need to compare the situations at equivalent maturity.

-- Carl

P.S. Did you read the US documents I linked, or was I wasting my effort? Did you learn anything?



To: TimF who wrote (101335)6/14/2003 4:19:11 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Respond to of 281500
 
And the Vietnamese set themselves on fire as a protest and sent kids with grenades to try and kill Americans.

Y'know Twfowler.. when I read the above, I got curious as to how the lot of the average Buddhist monk had improved since that one guy toasted himself on the street.

VOA Editorial
Broadcast to Vietnam on August 6, 1997

Although Vietnam's Constitution provides for freedom of worship, its government continues to place severe restrictions on religious activities. As the U.S. State Department points out in a report on religious freedom worldwide, all religious organizations in Vietnam are required to obtain government permission to hold training seminars and conventions, to build or remodel places of worship, to engage in charitable activities or operate religious schools, and to ordain, promote, or transfer clergy. Religious groups continue to face difficulty in obtaining teaching materials, expanding training facilities, and publishing religious materials. Several American citizens are among those who have been charged and detained for disseminating religious materials in recent years.

The Vietnamese government requires all Buddhist monks to work under the Communist Party-controlled Buddhist umbrella organization. The government has also sought to control the Catholic Church hierarchy, in part by requiring that all clergy belong to the government-controlled Catholic Patriotic Association. It has also insisted on approving Vatican appointments. Some Catholic priests and Buddhist monks remain in prison for preaching outside the government-approved organizations. The only government-approved Protestant organization is the Christian Missionary Alliance of Vietnam. And the government restricts exit permits for Muslims seeking to make the Hajj. Despite all the restrictions, attendance at religious observances has continued to grow.


fva.org

n Vietnam today, the traditional Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam (UVBC) is banned, its pagodas are confiscated and its network of educational, social and cultural institutions are closed down. Monks, nuns and lay-Buddhists have suffered torture, detention and intimidation, and today virtually all the UBCV leadership is in prison or under house arrest. Moreover, repression against the "Buddhist Youth Movement" has reached such a pitch that 200 leaders of this 300,000-strong educational movement are preparing to immolate themselves in protest.

buddhanetz.org

The Unified Buddhist Church of Viet Nam, Madam Speaker, the largest religious denomination in Viet Nam, has been declared illegal by the government, and over the last 25 years its clergy have often been imprisoned and subjected to other forms of persecution.

The Patriarch of the Unified Buddhist Church, 83-year-old Most Venerable Thich Huyen Quang, has been detained for 21 years in a ruined temple in an isolated area of central Vietnam. Most Venerable Thich Quang Do, the Executive President of the Unified Baptist Church, has also been in various forms of detention for many years, and was recently rearrested and placed under house arrest after he had proposed to bring the most Venerable Thich Huyen Quang to Saigon for medical treatment. For that, he was punished.


usembassy.it

Yep... so much more freedom to be enjoyed under the Communists. I wonder if those Buddhists would have torched themselves had they realized what lay in wait for them under Communist rule?

Hawk