SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Pastimes : Clown-Free Zone... sorry, no clowns allowed -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Knighty Tin who wrote (245612)6/14/2003 12:01:54 PM
From: ild  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 436258
 
Monday, June 16, 2003
BARRON'S COVER
Triumph Of The Bull

Stocks look better than the alternatives
By ANDREW BARY

THE STOCK MARKET, to paraphrase Winston Churchill's comment about democracy, may not be perfect, but it looks better than the unattractive alternatives. The allure of equities over fixed-income securities, moreover, has been further enhanced by the new tax law.

With the sharp gain in the major market averages since their March lows, stocks aren't cheap by historical standards. The benchmark Standard & Poor's 500 index, at 988, trades for about 19 times projected 2003 operating profits, above the average price/earnings ratio of 15 over the past 20 years. The Dow Jones Industrial Average, at 9117, changes hands at about 18 times estimated 2003 earnings.

But the current market valuations need to be measured against other investments, chiefly bonds, which offer pitifully low yields and could pose plenty of risk. The S&P may be up 23% from its March lows, but it's back only to where it stood five years ago, as are the Dow Jones Industrial Average and Nasdaq Composite (see graphs below). The current S&P P/E is well below its peak of 25 in early 2000.

As for valuations, many stocks, including Pfizer, General Electric, Microsoft, PepsiCo and American International Group, trade at considerably lower P/Es now than they did in 1998.


While technology has led the stock market this year, the best returns over the next six months could come from high-quality, dividend-paying stocks such as the ones shown in the table "Focus on Dividends1." The most vulnerable group of stocks may be the pricey tech and biotech stocks that have run up so much in the first half. The speculative quality of the tech rally is apparent in the huge gains in stocks such as Juniper Networks, Broadcom and Yahoo, while tech leaders such as International Business Machines, Oracle and Dell Computer have enjoyed sizable but not outlandish gains.

Bonds, meanwhile, look dubious at current levels. The benchmark Treasury 10-year note yields just 3.1%, a 45-year low, while short-term rates hover just above 1%, and may be heading lower if the Federal Reserve cuts rates later this month, as many on Wall Street expect.

The after-tax yield on most Treasuries is 2% or less, meaning that investors are consigning themselves to low or no after-tax returns over the next decade barring the unlikely event of outright price deflation. Should bond yields rise one percentage point in the next year -- not outside the realm of possibility -- the 10-year Treasury note would drop about 8% in price, equivalent to 2½ years' worth of income. It's arguable that, over the next 12 months, there's as much risk in the 10-year Treasury as in the S&P index, and far less appreciation potential.

Junk bonds, which carried juicy 13% yields last October, now yield about 9% on average. That may look good in a world of 1%-2% inflation, but investors need to factor in default rates and taxes. Assume a normal level of defaults, and investors could be staring at 7% annual junk returns over the next few years, and less after taxes.

On Wall Street, the big debate is whether the market gains of the past three months amount to another bear-market rally that soon will be reversed or the start of a bull market.

Based on the super-low level of interest rates and the prospect of a mild recovery in corporate earnings, this rally looks sustainable, especially considering the $5 trillion sitting in low-yielding accounts at banks, thrifts and money-market funds that could start to make its way into stocks. One gauge of potential liquidity, the ratio of money-fund assets to the Wilshire 5000 index, a broad market measure of 5,000 stocks, is way above its historical average (see graph "Ample Liquidity1").

"We're in a saw-toothed bull market," says Byron Wien, senior investment strategist at Morgan Stanley. There could be a near-term setback for stocks; the summer has historically not been a great period for them and certain technical indicators, including sentiment and the relationship of the major indexes to their 200-day averages, indicate that stocks may have moved up too quickly.

"The consensus is that this is a cyclical bull market in a secular bear market. I don't agree," says Wien. "By the end of 2003, the economy will be stronger and rates will be rising." If Wien is right, the Dow at year-end could be flirting with 10,000, roughly 10% above its closing level Friday, and the Standard & Poor's 500 might hit 1,100, a gain of 11%. (For another view, see the interview2 with Ned Davis.)

The stock valuation models that factor in Treasury yields are flashing a strong buy signal. The so-called Fed model mentioned by Alan Greenspan in the late 1990s, which simply compares the forward earnings yield (the inverse of the P/E) of the S&P 500 to the yield on the 10-year Treasury, shows that the S&P is about 40% undervalued relative to a targeted level of over 1,600.


Wien's more sophisticated model, which employs Treasuries, corporate earnings growth and an equity risk premium, suggests that the S&P is 45% undervalued (see graph "Buy Signal"). Even if Wien's bullish profit- growth forecast of 10% annually is scaled back to 7%, the average of the past 40 years, the S&P is still almost 30% undervalued.

It can be argued that the Fed and Wien models spit out outrageously high stock valuations when interest rates get very low. But it would take an increase in the 10-year Treasury note to 5%, combined with an assumption of 7% annual profit growth, for stocks to be fairly valued now based on Wien's model.

It's tougher to make a case that the Nasdaq will match any further gains in the Dow and S&P this year because it has bested its brethren by a wide margin so far this year. Technology stock valuations, moreover, are by far the highest of any major sector of the market (see table "Rich Technology Sector3"). The Nasdaq, at 1626, has gained 21.8% so far this year, while the Dow is up 9.3% and the S&P 500, 12.4%.

The Nasdaq also looks vulnerable based on a long-term trend line stretching back to late 1989. The S&P 500 is up at an 8%-plus annual rate since then, while the Nasdaq has risen at more than a 10% clip, according to ISI Group.

It's expected that S&P operating profits will rise about 10% this year and another 10% in 2004 as Corporate America recovers from a depressed period from 2000 through 2002. S&P earnings are seen rising 6% in the second quarter and then increasing 12% and 21% in the third and fourth quarters, respectively.

It should be said that these operating earnings figures have their detractors, including Merrill Lynch's chief domestic strategist, Richard Bernstein, who has argued that operating estimates exclude a lot of bad stuff such as corporate restructuring charges.

Table: Focus on Dividends4



Bernstein considers actual, unscrubbed S&P earnings as a better measure of corporate profitability because so many extraordinary charges are recurring. The Bernstein approach makes stocks look very expensive because 2002 S&P profits were under $30, below the operating figure of $48, owing to huge write-offs. The good news about 2003 is that operating profits aren't expected to be much different from reported earnings largely because corporations took so much pain in 2002.

U.S. fiscal, monetary, currency and tax policies all are favorable for stocks. Indeed, there rarely has been such a potent policy mix as the one now emanating from Washington. The federal budget deficit could run at $400 billion in the coming year and short rates are at their lowest in over 40 years. Taxes on dividends, meanwhile, were cut to 15% from 35% and capital- gains taxes were reduced to 15% from 20%.

It's almost as if political and monetary authorities are conspiring to lift the stock market. Whatever happened to the famed bond-market "vigilantes" of the late 1980s and early 1990s, who sold bonds at times of strong economic stimulus programs? The vigilantes have gone soft. The new vogue among hedge funds and other big speculators is to buy billions of dollars of 2% and 3% Treasuries with high degrees of leverage using borrowed funds costing 1% in order to earn decent returns on low-yielding bonds. This strategy could end badly, as it did in 1994, if economic growth accelerates and inflation fears rise.

The Federal Reserve's current fear, deflation, looks like a remote threat. Concerns about falling prices may exist in the heads of the Fed governors, but the average American consumer doesn't see much evidence of it. From medical costs to college tuition to natural gas to homeowners' insurance to cable TV, prices are heading up.

As for valuations, tech stocks within the S&P trade at a significant premium to the rest of the index. The tech sector commands more than 30 times projected 2003 profits, about double the valuation of non-tech stocks in the index (see table "Rich Technology Sector5"). This calculation doesn't adjust for the heavy options grants by tech companies that would pinch their profits and boost their effective P/E ratios.


Based on projected 2003 earnings, the P/E ratio of tech to non-tech stocks is at the high end of the range for the past five years, except for bubble period in late 1999 and 2000. Prior to the late-1990s tech boom, the tech sector never traded at more than a 50% premium to the rest of the market.

"For tech stocks to go much higher, we either need P/Es to expand beyond what we've seen in prior tech rallies, or we need to get substantially more earnings improvement than we suspect," says Steve Milunovich, tech strategist at Merrill Lynch. Milunovich's colleague Bernstein argues that the tech group ought to trade at a discount to the rest of the market because of higher earnings volatility and shorter periods of competitive advantage.

Intel, for instance, is a hot stock this year, rising 37% to 21.36. But for all the excitement about the chip maker's improving prospects, its projected profits this year of 65 cents a share are less than what it earned in 1997. That hardly qualifies as a growth stock. Intel has been rewarded with a P/E of 34 on estimated 2003 earnings.

It's unlikely that tech stocks will trade down to a market multiple anytime soon, if only because portfolio managers who want to juice up their performance in a bull market instinctively gravitate toward technology. Many tech stocks, including much of the semiconductor and semiconductor-capital-equipment sector, have morphed into trading vehicles with valuations that are difficult or impossible to justify based on fundamentals. Tech analysts are looking for 17% annualized profit growth in the next few years, a very ambitious target.

Many investors wonder about the earnings growth rate implied by the current levels of the major indexes and stocks. Morgan Stanley has sought to provide answers about implied earnings growth rates for various sectors and for the entire S&P 500 (see table "Rich Technology Sector6").

At its current value, the S&P now discounts roughly 8% annual growth, while tech anticipates 12% annual increases, according to work by Steve Galbraith, chief domestic strategist at Morgan Stanley. Some would argue that with the S&P trading at 19 times estimated 2003 operating profits and for about 17 times estimated 2004 earnings, the projected earnings growth rate ought to be higher than 8%.

Yet Galbraith says that earnings growth doesn't need to run in double digits to justify the current S&P level. Over the past 20 years, the index has traded at an average P/E of about 15, roughly double its earnings growth rate of 7% annually.

Low-P/E sectors of the stock market, notably financials and energy, discount just 5% growth, according to Morgan Stanley. It's admittedly harder for financial companies to differentiate themselves and competition is fierce, but current valuations don't demand much earnings growth.

Regional banks, for instance, have been laggards this year amid concern that falling rates will cut their interest margins. There indeed has been some pressure on margins, but many of the stocks, including PNC Financial, Comerica and Wachovia, now trade for 12-to-13 times projected 2003 profits and often carry dividend yields of as much as 4%. The country's best-run regional, Wells Fargo, trades for a modest 14 times projected 2003 earnings. The regionals look attractive relative to the major securities brokers such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, which have run up this year owing to their operating leverage if equity underwriting, merger-advisory and other high-margin businesses revive.

Energy stocks aren't badly valued and carry solid dividend support. ChevronTexaco, ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Petroleum and BP, the four global "super-majors," all have moved up this year, yet their P/Es are modest, save for ExxonMobil, which commands its usual premium to the group. ChevronTexaco, BP and Royal Dutch have yields in the 3% range and P/E ratios of around 14 based on estimated 2003 earnings. Their yields stack up well relative to Treasuries and high-grade bonds.

Assuming no reduction in their dividends, ChevronTexaco, Royal Dutch and BP need show no appreciation in their shares to beat the return on the 10-year T-note over the next decade.

One concern about the big oils is that 2003 profits are running above "normal" levels owing to unsustainably high oil and gas prices. Yet those fears are fading as oil moves back over $30 a barrel and natural gas remains stubbornly around $6 per million British thermal units.

Other dividend-paying stocks are listed in the tables. The first bunch, including Altria Group, Verizon Communications and Eastman Kodak, carry relatively high -- and secure -- dividends in the 4%-5% range, but their growth prospects generally are lower than those of the second group, which includes Pfizer, Gillette, General Electric and Wells Fargo. The second group, with dividend yields in the 2% range, could be capable of 10% annual profit gains, although many are targeting higher growth.

The dividend rate of the entire S&P index is 1.7% and 2.2% for the Dow Industrials. Many strategists think dividends are apt to rise, thanks to the tax-law changes. Corporations no longer have a tax incentive to buy back stock rather than pay dividends.

The dividend-payout ratio on the S&P -- dividends as a percentage of operating earnings -- is low at around 33%. In contrast, the DJ Euro Stoxx 50, the leading companies in Europe, pay an average dividend of 3.4% with a payout ratio of around 50%. If the S&P dividend payout ratio moved up to 40%, the S&P dividend yield would rise to about 2%. That's admittedly low by pre-1990 standards, when the S&P generally yielded 3% or more.

Dividend-oriented investing is expected to become more important in the coming years because of lower taxation and the prospects of single-digit annual stock appreciation. To benefit from a dividend-oriented strategy, investors need to hold stocks directly or buy low-cost mutual funds such as index funds.

Many equity mutual funds aren't effective dividend vehicles because they eat up too much of their income in fees, given the industry's overall expense ratio of about 1.5%. "The typical high-cost mutual fund is simply inappropriate for anyone seeking income," says Jack Bogle, the former head of the Vanguard Group of funds and a champion of low-fee funds.

Assume a fund with an S&P-type portfolio yielding 1.7% and an expense ratio of 1.5%. The investor gets just 0.2% before taxes. Bogle notes that the effective cost of the typical fund, including transaction costs, is closer to 3%, which is a hefty chunk of the 7%-ish yearly equity total returns that many foresee for the next decade.

For those who want to go the fund route, the no-load Vanguard Equity Income Fund yields more than 2% and has an expense ratio of 0.47%, according to Morningstar, which rates it four stars. Its biggest holdings include the aforementioned ExxonMobil, Verizon and ChevronTexaco. Morningstar also recommends Dodge & Cox Stock and T. Rowe Price Equity-Income funds among low-cost, no-load, dividend-focused funds.

So as Churchill might have said, stocks may be the least attractive form of investment -- except for all others.



To: Knighty Tin who wrote (245612)6/14/2003 12:02:38 PM
From: ild  Respond to of 436258
 
Monday, June 16, 2003
Bear's Pause

The rally is just a phase of a long-term down market, researcher says.
By SANDRA WARD

AN INTERVIEW WITH NED DAVIS -- Armed with rich databases of economic and market information, along with any number of proprietary indicators, Davis and his team at Ned Davis Research in Venice, Fla., are able to pinpoint trends and patterns that are scarily reliable in assessing where the market is headed. The penetrating analysis and prescient prognostications are the reasons that Ned Davis Research, founded in 1980, counts 851 paid-up subscribers in 32 countries and has 4,962 people on its mailing list. He graciously took our call recently and offered his thoughts on why this rally is for real, and why the continuing bear market is also.

Barron's: I hear you've become more positive about the market.

Davis: Well, I feel much the way I did when we had the interview last year. This is a cyclical bull market within a secular bear market. There have been some distinct improvements since we last spoke, but basically the message is the same.

Q: What's improved?
A: Since October of last year, corporate bonds have been up nearly every day. They've been really strong, and that is an added stimulus on top of what the Fed has been doing. The tax cuts certainly have had more of an investment tinge this time around. Not only did we get a dividend cut and the capital-gains cut, but people in the top bracket will see their rate cut from 38.6% to 35%. That's a tremendous drop in taxes. So that's a tax cut on top of a tax cut that was already out there. The dollar, which had been drifting down for almost two years now, really started tumbling earlier this year, and that's another stimulus. It is a risky stimulus, but another one all the same. There have been so many added kicks that the market took off after mid-March.

Ned Davis says "cyclical bulls" like the current market can last for a year. He's been buying tech stocks.


Q: But how stimulative are these tax cuts? Don't they just benefit the rich?
A: There is some truth to that. But the rich are the ones that own the stocks. So, it won't mean much for the whole economy or for the 1.8 million people who have lost jobs in the past three years, but it is very bullish for the stock market and stock investors.

Q: What's been the impact of long rates coming down?
A: Long rates were providing huge competition for stocks. Also, a lot of companies had gotten themselves into very heavy debt and were not able to tap the commercial-paper markets and had to raise money in the corporate bond markets at higher rates, which was a drag on earnings. There were a lot of bankruptcies and to help them service the debt, long-term rates needed to come down. The yield on Baa, the main corporate investment grade, has dropped 21% in the past year. That's about as low as they've ever dropped. This was a tremendous stimulus. We find a 1% drop on a 12-month basis tends to be bullish for the market.

Q: What else points to a cyclical bull?
A: We went back and classified the market as secular periods of three to four cycles of 16 to 20 years and then broke those down into secular bull periods and secular bear periods.Very, very long supercycles. We studied cyclical bulls within secular bear markets and found that they didn't last as long as other cyclical bulls and they didn't go quite as high, but in the 17 we looked at, the S&P 500 went up an average of 50.6% and lasted 371 days on average.

Q: More than a year?
A: Some of these were in the 1966 and 1982 period when the market went up for two years, but we are using averages here. Still, they were quite substantial. Then, while there are a lot of dissimilarities between Japan and the U.S., I think there are a lot of similarities, too. We looked at the secular bear that started in 1989 in Japan and found four rallies of 48%, 34%, 56%, 62% that also lasted many, many months. That gives you an average of 50%. And it confirmed what we found in cyclical bulls during secular bears here. On top of this cycle, the U.S. also has a presidential-election cycle and from the mid-term election year lows, which are usually reached in the fall, to the high of the next year, we've typically had rallies measuring 51.2% on average. Those are three different measures that suggest we could have a pretty substantial cyclical bull, even amid this long-term bear market.

Q: How much of this have we already experienced? The market is up quite a bit.
A: The S&P is up about 28% from the lows. The NDX 100 [Nasdaq 100] is up 53% from its low and has already gained as much as the S&P usually does in a cyclical rally. But we looked at all the rallies in this secular bear since the 2000 high and we also looked at the rallies in Japan, and we found, in almost every case, speculative growth stocks tend to lead these rallies. We saw this after the 9/11 lows. The S&P went up 21% and the NDX went up 53%. For whatever reason, whether it's the level of short interest or beta or the nature of bear-market rallies, the leadership is very speculative, so even if the S&P goes up by 50% or so, the Nasdaq could double. Already, biotechs and Internet stocks have doubled. If the S&P goes up by another 100 points or whatever, surely they would participate, but maybe not to the extent that they have so far.


Q: What's your model asset allocation?
A: We are 65% stocks, which is 10% overweight the benchmark, 30% bonds and 5% cash, both of which are 5% underweight the benchmark. I wouldn't call that a negative position on bonds, but clearly we are favoring stocks right here.

Q: Where are you putting your money?
A: Last year, our work pointed us toward large-cap growth stocks. In the past month or two, we shifted to small-cap growth. We are still very heavy in the financials. But they are slowly coming off our list, and tech and growth stocks are picking up. There is a general feeling that the financials are overdone, and overweighted in the S&P. I'm not convinced yet. They still act pretty good. In every cycle where there is excess, the banks finance it, so they typically end up getting in trouble. In this case, they all have been financing mortgages and housing prices have risen. Actually, the mortgage foreclosure rate is at a record high, but it is still only 1.1%. That is not the kind of thing where you really get into trouble. I thought the REITs would be the first place we'd see problems, with the downturn in commercial real estate and the fact that their dividends weren't going to be favored in this tax law. They did have a pretty big correction, but they are back up at their highs right now. It seems as if they should be getting hurt here.

Q: Any other areas that you're positive on or more concerned about?
A: All across the energy spectrum -- in particular natural gas -- we are seeing demand higher than we would have expected and supply a lot weaker than we expected. We really see a lot of problems in the supply-demand situation for energy, and the selloff that occurred after the war was a buying opportunity.

Q: What about the hiding places for the bear market you liked last year?
A: I thought you could hide in bonds and utility stocks. The utilities didn't do too well for a while, but they have certainly come on like gangbusters lately and that could be because of the dividend tax cut. I still like that group. Bonds have done well, too. A lot of people have been saying for a couple of years now that bonds were overvalued. But only since the end of May has our bond valuation index shown them to be overvalued. Bonds -- corporate and government -- are not a good hiding place right now. My guess is they are going to have a pretty big correction in the third quarter, and that may end up being a good time to buy them again.

Q: Why the correction?
A: They've had a tremendous run here. My suspicion is that the economy is really going to surprise people in the third quarter and if that comes about, after people have grown accustomed to sluggish and muddling growth, we could see a very strong third quarter and, if so, the bonds would sell off. The pickup in the economy won't be sustainable and therefore bonds would be a good buy if they have a good shakeout. But I wouldn't own them now.

Q: Why won't the pickup in the economy be sustainable?
A: All the stimulus will make a difference. But the first round of stimulus only lasted a quarter, and I am worried that may happen again. Unemployment is still a weak spot. If we do get a booming quarter as I expect, there's the risk that rates might go up. Or the dollar will continue to collapse. In either case, the boom won't last.

Q: And the boom is driven by consumers continuing to spend?
A: They've been selectively doing that. Mostly in autos and certainly in housing. Mortgage refis and mortgage applications have been at new all-time highs. That's the Fed's position, really: make cash trash. People don't know what to do about it. A year or so ago, there were some things to do because bond yields were high and housing was booming. Now the bond yields have gone away. Short-term rates are certainly going to go away. They may cut them another half-percentage point. After fees and all, you are getting zero on money-market funds. So where does that money go? Auto sales really have stalled out, but the incentives are dramatic. When people get the reduction in their withholding and a check in the mail, that may be just enough to kick auto sales up again. Housing is still booming.

Q: What's your take on the housing market?
A: There are pockets of bubble. But it's not like the stock-market bubble. It's not even close. If there's another run here, and we put another whole layer of housing boom on top of the mountain we have, that might be very risky. I do think there is a mortgage-debt bubble now. People say it's not a problem because rates are low and housing prices are going up. That is all true. But still the debt has got to be paid. If housing stalls or interest rates go up, the mortgage-debt bubble becomes a really big problem.

That is the Catch-22 the economy is in. We've got this $32 trillion debt bubble out there, and it is as risky as can be. And, yet, rates are plunging, so everything looks manageable. It is true we've had 2.4 million bankruptcies filed since the economy started up in the fourth quarter of 2001. But, with rates down at these levels, we are managing. If somehow the Fed succeeds this time and things heat up again, interest rates will start up. The debt service will be enormous and that will put us right back to where we are now. That is the problem. If the Fed doesn't pull this off, and they don't trash cash and they don't force people to go out and spend their last dollar, or borrow their last dollar, then you are looking at deflation. And that is terrible.

Q: Somehow then, they have to manage in this little sweet spot for quite a while.
A: Right. If they heat things up, it is bad and if they don't heat things up, it is worse. They have clearly chosen to try to heat things up. You've got an election next year and they have a good shot at it. My guess is we'll have a great quarter, maybe a little longer than a quarter, then rates go up and it will end almost immediately. There is not a lot of pent-up demand. All the pent-up demand is coming from driving rates lower and lower and lower.

The other side of that, the other big secular risk I see -- and it all ties together -- is that our exports are exactly what they were back in 1997. This either means our goods are not competitive or the dollar is way overvalued. It is probably a little bit of both. We had a productivity jump, though I am not convinced it is as good as the numbers show. Given that productivity jump, our goods should be competitive, and they are not. We definitely needed to see the dollar come down, but it needs to come down carefully and slowly. If foreigners understood our policy is what I think it is, that is, making cash trash, why would they keep their $3 trillion in this country? At the point they realize this, this nice decline in the dollar all of a sudden becomes tremendously bad.

Q: So how do you respond to a cyclical bull market within a secular bear market? Are you bearish or bullish?
A: As a trader, I'm long and I'm bullish. We might get another 10%, maybe more. The question becomes how do you know when the falling dollar turns from a positive to a negative? It becomes negative when it starts impacting the bond market. Given the dollar situation, given the $32 trillion in debt, I don't think the bond market needs to go up anymore. But it needs to behave. It can't start tanking. What will end this rally is either the tape deteriorating or the bond market starting to really go down.

Q: And you're trading in and out of small-cap growth stocks?
A: Yes, mostly tech and biotech stocks. Every week since we became pro-Nasdaq we read -- often in Barron's -- that tech is back in a bubble. It is unnerving, it seems like there is a tech stock every day that has a problem, including IBM recently. It is very hard to sit here but that's where the leadership is.

Q: But you still think this is a "Humpty-Dumpty" economy.
A: It is not going to feel that way next quarter. I will be very surprised if we don't have a big jump in activity. But when you have this kind of debt -- we've had two rounds of tax cuts and 12 cuts in interest rates and only one good quarter of economic activity -- that tells me there is a tremendous drag, whatever they want to say about debt being manageable and debt service being low. There is another drag in that the stock market's valuation, if you look at actual earnings, clearly is not cheap. You can get a cyclical bull but you can't push it too far because the turnaround stocks are already overvalued. If you go buy that we are in a secular bear, this is not just a little animated correction.

When you look at past secular market bottoms, the P/E on stocks was 10 and the dividend yield was 5%. You can talk about stocks at 15 times earnings being good value, but if you go back to 1942, 1949, 1974, 1980, 1982 and 10 P/Es and 5% dividend yields, we are not even close to that. It becomes clear that with all the talk about the debt bubble, it still isn't being discounted by the stock market.

Q: A lot of people don't seem to think it's a problem.
A: The Fed is trying to keep the economy afloat while we are working ourselves out of debt. The problem with what they've done to get the economy going is they've tried to cure the problem of too much debt by adding more debt. It all looks good as long as rates stay down here. I think whatever the Fed is doing is wrong, but I don't really know what else they can do. If our problem is we save too little and borrow too much, what are we doing now? We are making savings worth zero and we are telling people to borrow. We are doing just the opposite of what we need to do. The reason they are doing it because they are scared to death of deflation. They are scared to death of a depression. So they are fighting it tooth and nail, and I think short-term it is going to look pretty good. But I am very dubious about the long term.

Q: What are mutual-fund flows telling you?
A: It is minor really, but we're seeing inflows again to funds after months of outflows. They are not big but they are decent. It started in March and April. What was interesting was that fund managers didn't spend the money or spent very little of it. It showed a fair amount of pessimism. It is not like they've got much cash to speak of. If you want to make a bullish case based on fund flows, you have to base it on the fact that for the past three years, a lot of institutions have been putting a whole lot more money in bonds rather than stocks. So portfolios may be out of line with too much exposure to bonds. They don't have a lot of cash, so in order to rebalance and buy stocks, they are going to have to sell bonds. The question is: When they start to sell bonds, will that send interest rates up or is the inflation picture so positive that it won't hurt bonds?

Q: Thank you very much, Ned.



To: Knighty Tin who wrote (245612)6/14/2003 12:03:46 PM
From: ild  Respond to of 436258
 
Monday, June 16, 2003
D.C. CURRENT
By JIM MCTAGUE

Found: $12 Trillion

Uncle Sam may get a surprising pot of gold
THE SOCIAL-SECURITY TIME BOMB could very well prove to be a dud. The doom and gloom red-ink budgetary forecasts of recent years have overlooked some astoundingly good news for the government: pensions, IRAs and other tax-deferred accounts should generate some $12 trillion in taxes by 2040. This mind-boggling pot-of-gold is larger, at a minimum, than the sum of the 75-year actuarial deficits in either Social Security or Medicare, according to Stanford economist Michael Boskin, who has written a pioneering paper on the subject for the National Bureau of Economic Research. We could end up with enough to offset both shortfalls, he says.

The $12 trillion is based on a conservative, base-line forecast. Boskin also entertains scenarios in which the number is as low as $9 trillion and a high as $19 trillion. His point is that this contingent asset, which isn't on the government's books, will be very large. Only an economic disaster, like 10 consecutive years of down stock markets, would torpedo his rosy projection.

The cash could offset a major portion of the national debt through 2050, the paper says. Boskin, however, isn't trying to challenge the need for serious reform of Social Security, in particular, or government spending in general. The Republican scholar believes improvements in the government's operations are needed to free up money for more productive uses.

Boskin, who declined to comment on his work, expects to publish the paper in about two weeks. He has given private readings to White House, Treasury and Federal Reserve Board officials. In fact, the President's Office of Management and Budget and a former Treasury official directed us to Boskin's research.

Right now, Washington has no long-term estimates like these, because it hasn't fully embraced accrual accounting. The government focuses on the accumulation of future debt, while ignoring the growth in value of its assets, like legally owed taxes in tax-deferred accounts.

The Congressional Budget Office and other agencies do make 10-year estimates of tax collections on withdrawals from the various savings accounts like IRAs, 401(k)s, education-savings accounts and medical-savings accounts, so a small portion of the money is being counted. But Boskin says they are underestimating the amount of money in the accounts.

An awareness of this hoard of legally owed tax money is beginning to circulate on Wall Street because of a Bush administration proposal to phase out six tax-deferred retirement and savings accounts and replace them with two accounts similar to Roth IRAs. Under this plan -- proposed in the President's budget and now being promoted by the Treasury -- there would be no tax deduction for deposits to the accounts, but money would accumulate tax-free and withdrawals would be tax-free.

The Bush plan would allow conversion of existing tax-deferred accounts into the new accounts, accelerating the collection of future taxes. Pamela F. Olson, Treasury's assistant secretary of tax policy, says that although more taxes would flow into Uncle Sam's coffers up front, the long-term effect would be a "wash." Boskin doesn't estimate the effect on deferred taxes of the Bush proposal, which he favors, other than to say that it would "shift the timing of tax collections toward the present."

Boskin figures the present value of the taxes on deferred retirement and savings accounts is close to $3 trillion. The current budget deficit is just north of $400 billion.

Tax-deferred retirement accounts, which now hold about $11 trillion in assets, were introduced back in 1981 during the Reagan administration. Initially, they reduced the government's tax receipts and caused it to issue debt to make up some of the difference. But by 2002 the accounts produced a net budgetary wash, says Boskin, who served on a task force that recommended creation of the accounts.

From now on, the net budgetary effects turn positive, he says. Going forward to 2040, the government loses $5.2 trillion in deferred tax revenues, gains $4.6 trillion on net interest, and pulls in $12.5 trillion in taxes on withdrawals and business taxes, resulting in a net gain of $11.9 trillion.

Boskin notes that a number of factors could affect the projections. When boomers realize that the government has a claim to as much as one-third of their deferred savings, the powerful group could successfully agitate for lower rates upon withdrawal. This is already becoming an issue. Investment advisor William E. Donoghue says the management fees on the government's third of a retirement account eliminates most of the compounding benefits. Makes you wonder: Are you saving or slaving?