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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (2227)	6/16/2003 9:11:00 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793914

You're trying to make me work hard. ;-) Yes, I am. This is tough stuff to find, John. And when you do, if it is in the "Establishment" media, it can't be trusted. It's like asking Greenpeace to publish a study saying that Global Warming is a myth. The Educational Establishment is committed to "M&M" as the solution and they will not listen to anything else. All of their media reflects that POV.

To: JohnM who wrote (2227)	6/16/2003 9:40:00 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793914

The key is good teachers, not class size, and I think this goes a long way toward proving it. At least you may not throw "smaller classes" in my face everytime we post about education. The Stuyvesant High School article shows how the dead hand of Union work rules kills the ability to hire and motivate good teachers. NYC is one of the worst, but I think all big city unions are so strong that this is true with all of them. What you need to teach is a College Degree in what you are teaching. With a "How to teach," one or two semester class, thrown in. The rest is OJT, IMO. The "Teacher's Certificate" is malarky. Just "make work" classes that feed a lot of Education PHDs at the College level. Paying extra money for K-12 Teachers to get a advanced degree is another real piece of codpockery. If they want it for their own benefit, fine. It is not needed to teach at that level. Pay the Teachers extra money for extra classroom results. Pay them to spend extra time at the schools working with the kids. Don't pay them for these bullshit courses they take to get extra bucks. My wife did it. And so does every teacher I know.

To: JohnM who wrote (2227)	6/17/2003 5:35:50 AM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793914

The best data to demonstrate change in a population is comparable cohort longitudinal data. Cross cultural studies are terribly difficult to do well because of the difficulty of getting genuinely comparable measures, Measures of "achievement" are difficult to come up with. Sometimes they differ on conceptual grounds John, With that...you have totally convinced me you are part of the problem...not part of the solution. If class size was the ultimate measurement as you are trying to feed us...you would not be a college professor. The pay scale would be too low. Testing is going to be the solution. Teachers are going to have to teach what the neighborhood wants the kids to learn...freedom in the classroom is going to exist...but you are going to have to perform and that performance is going to be tested regularly and often. Sorry to inform you John, but America thinks the free ride for teachers needs to come to an end. If you cannot perform to a standard (as the rest of us must), find another job..if you can. uw