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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (101889)	6/18/2003 8:11:33 AM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

"They are? Says who? Bush got squat from them at Aqaba. Did they agree to ostracize Arafat? Did they agree to cut off funding for Hamas? No. They are still leading "cease-fire" talks with Hamas, do you call that support?" Arabs leaders are acting behind the scenes. Hamas has to be dealt with one way or another. I think thats being made clear to them. A Hudna I know is a temporary cease fire, but in my hopeful, albeit long shot scenario, even Hamas will recognize the psychic damage being done to Palestinians by suicides and reluctantly agree to play a role in the Pal state. The history of that new state and its interaction with Israel can alter the hatred that exists on all sides. Again Nadine before you yell at me, this is a long shot but one worth taking if it is made clear to Hamas that the alternative will be american backed destruction of their organization, economically, politically and even militarily. There are always ways to peace even if there is no love lost between the combatants. How the two sides forgive each other for the perceived atrocities exists in their histories--brothers persecuted by colonial rulers not knowing how to live on the same land. I dont want to get too marxist here but i remember a treatise about the american south that talked about how southern plantations owners pitted the hated white trash against the slaves by creating a rung above for them on the social ladder. The Jews and Arabs have been fighting for that "rung" for 100 years while others have manipulated them for their oil, strategic position etc. The Cold War was the last period which clearly had superpowers pitting one against the other in some form. Now 9/11 and Bush has chosen a different path--now here comes win and bilow and the bushbashers. And that path is indeed not peace of the brave or even peace of the exhausted but it is peace of the newly enfranchised, the newly free and out from under the boot. mike PS sorry for the rant. I live my life in rarefied optimistic air. I cant imagine my grandkids growing up in a world like this so i continue to hope. But make no mistake, if hamas wont play I would not hesitate to kill them all if necessary. And perhaps thats the real Bush message after all--The Yanks are coming. Of course coming and succeeding are two different things and as we are learing in iraq the first is easier.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (101889)	6/18/2003 9:59:54 AM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Did you see David Cohen and the advisor to CP Abdullah on Charlie Rose last night? One of the best discussions I've ever seen on television. I'm quite impressed by Cohen. He has a take on the situation that is somewhat congruent with Debka's, as set forth here: debka.com Cohen believes that Abu Mazen's weakness is actually a strength. All actors--the Pals, Israel, the US, Egypt, the Saudis, and everyone else that counts--want to prop him up. This has the potential for creating if not a formal coalition at least a common interest group that could actually make the roadmap succeed. Cohen thinks that Sharon is onboard as he is slowly recognizing that eye for an eye is fruitless. However, he also thinks that without meaningful overtures to the Israeli populace by the Pals, it will be incredibly difficult to get the roadmap to succeed. Nevertheless, Cohen sees some elements in place that make him guardedly optimistic.