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Pastimes : The Boxing Ring Revived -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (6475)	6/20/2003 2:56:34 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7720

"(I am in the midst of reading it now, and it's fascinating), God did some rather nasty things. In the Christian OT, during the plagues, Pharoh hardened his own heart, or his ministers were involved. But in the Tanakh, Pharoh wanted to relent and let the Jews go, but God intervened to harden Pharoh's heart" I admire your studiousness, but, indeed, God is always the culprit in Exodus. Keep studying; you will enjoy it... ____________________________ Ex. 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Ex.7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. Ex.7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. Ex.9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. Ex.10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him: Ex.10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go. Ex.10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go. Ex.11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land. Ex.14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD. Ex.14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel Ex.14:17 I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (6475)	6/21/2003 7:45:58 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 7720

That's aking ot saying that even people who believe that they have absolute knowledge that, say, the Iraq war is wrong should be able to recognize that they should exercise restraint in so stating because they will rile up passions. Whether it's the nature of God or the legitimacy of the Iraq war, people have opinions and beliefs, they don't "know" anything. The world would be a whole lot better off if people comprehended that distinction. People can express their opinions and beliefs all they want as long as they express their opinions and beliefs as such. And their audiences can get riled up over whatever they want if they're squirrelly enough to get riled up over other people's opinions and beliefs. It's only when the opinion expressers and/or their audiences operate in the "know" mode that there are problems. If you believe the Bible... The Bible may or may not be the word of God who may or may not exist in the form described in the Bible or in any other form. No one knows. No one "knows." The only absolute in all this as far as I'm concerned is that it's wrong, wrong as in incorrect, to insist there is certainty where certainty cannot exist. We humans have a word for certainty for a reason--to distinguish between what we can objectively know from what we can't. It is also my firm belief and conviction that it is wrong in the sense of a mistake, nonconstructive. One may legitimately believe and follow and try to induce others to believe and follow due to one's certitude about one's beliefs. One can believe that God takes sides in basketball games if one chooses. But it is wrong to insist on the truth of that or any other POV to the extent of arrogantly assuming it applies universally.