Interview With William L. Nash, Ret. Army: Mar 27, 2003 on Australian Broadcasting Corporation
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Broadcast: 27/3/2003
More troops needed to take Baghdad
I'm joined now from Washington by William L. Nash, a retired army general who commanded the 1st Brigade of the 3rd Armoured Division during Desert Storm. His brigade fought the Republican Guard during the main assault from Saudi Arabia. He also led US troops into Bosnia after the Dayton Accords.
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Compere: Tony Jones
Reporter: Tony Jones
TONY JONES: General Nash, there's a growing argument it seems in the Pentagon about whether the coalition forces are going to need at least another heavy infantry division in Iraq before they attack Baghdad.
What do you think about that?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.), COMMANDER "DESERT STORM" ARMOURED BRIGADE: Well, I know there's been a lot of discussion about it.
General Franks continues to express his confidence and I have no reason to question him.
I understand all this discussion.
I've never met a soldier that would not have liked to have more forces.
I've never met a good soldier that couldn't put more forces to good work, so obviously they would like to have more forces -- the decision on the force flow comes from the Pentagon, not from General Franks.
His job is to take the forces allocated and get the job done.
TONY JONES: That seems to be one of the problems, though, doesn't it, because if reports are to be believed, General Franks wanted more forces on the ground.
It was the Pentagon -- indeed, Donald Rumsfeld -- who stopped that from happening, wanting to test this new military theory of his.
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): Well, that's what a lot of the talk around town has been about.
From my personal view, we've got a very powerful force assembling in front of Baghdad.
There's a number of units, to include the 101st airborne division, that has not been employed as yet and I think as this weather continues here, the Iraqis are gonna face a very powerful onslaught from US and British and Australian forces.
I would say that the reports from Basra, Safwan, Umm Qasr, Al Nasiriyah area, on the larger supply, might argue for additional forces in a follow and support role, not only to establish stability and security but also begin in earnest this very important humanitarian relief and post-war efforts.
TONY JONES: The problem is, of course, that the fourth infantry division won't even be available for possibly another month.
Their tanks, their equipment are still at sea as we speak.
Was that poor planning in the rush to war?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): Well, it was certainly -- the initial cause, as you well know, was because the planned entry through Turkey was not able to happen and after some period of confirming that there was no way to turn the Turkish decision around they've made the move to the south.
I think you'll see within a week or two lead elements of the fourth division being available.
It is an extremely capable organisation.
It is the most modern division in the United States Army and so I'm sure that they will get elements of the division, probably a brigade, at a time into the fight as soon as they can.
TONY JONES: How worried are you in the meantime about these continuing guerrilla attacks on the overstretched supply lines, the convoy going through Al Samawah -- central Iraq was hit today, we don't know of the casualties but it was clearly a heavy fight?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): I would tell you that first of all war is a dynamic endeavour of action and counteraction, and if there's been any misjudgment at all -- and I think mostly again in Washington, rather than in the field -- the underestimation of the commitment of the Iraqi people to fight for their country, just because they might be against Saddam Hussein in his regime does not necessarily mean they're welcoming an outside invader.
But as the tactics of the Iraqi irregulars have developed, the folks in the field have taken counteractions to deal with that.
I know General Blunt of the 3rd infantry division and the marine commanders, they'll allocate some combat power to keep their lines of communication open.
As more forces are available, they'll pick up that duty, and all the while they'll keep the eye on the main objective, which are the Republican Guards in front of Baghdad.
TONY JONES: But, General, as you've just pointed out, if the Iraqi people themselves decide -- and I'm talking here about civilians who may well become armed -- if they decide that the Americans, the British, indeed the Australians who are in their country are invaders that need to be expelled, will they become the enemy, not the Republican Guard, but actually civilians?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): Well, we certainly don't want them to become the enemy, and even if there's hostility displayed, I think we need to be very measured.
All of this that is going on is why there's so much discussion before the war and, as you well know, there was great optimism expressed by some and a great concern expressed by others.
And this is something that's gonna have to work out.
I think that the decision point on the Iraqi people will come after the Iraqi people are confident that Saddam Hussein is gone and then we'll be able to see -- get a better judgment on their attitudes and, oh, by the way, by demonstrating Americans, British, Australians, the coalition, demonstrating this is a war of liberation, providing the humanitarian support, providing the reconstruction efforts, providing the political development that allows self-determination by the Iraqi people.
TONY JONES: All right.
Before these troops even get close to Baghdad, they face the Medina division of the Republican Guard, dug in, well dug in, it appears, well south of Baghdad.
They appear to be being reinforced even as we speak.
How hard a fight do you believe that is going to be, given what happened, for example, to the 30 Apache helicopters who attacked them just recently -- 30 of them heavily damaged, one of them shot down?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): Well, I would tell you that if there's a battle in reasonably open terrain south, south-east of Baghdad, and American powers can be brought to bear, I don't care how deep they're dug in.
The American forces, British forces, and all will engage and destroy the Medina, the Hammurabi and anybody else.
I've fought a bit of the Medina, I've fought another Republican Guards division that we chewed up so badly they just took it off the rolls, and it's no longer part of their force structure, and the American power will deal with them in fairly short order, especially if it's outside the city.
TONY JONES: General, just to set that in some sort of geographic context, it isn't the desert that these troops -- the Medina division and so on -- are dug into.
It's the Euphrates valley, a fertile valley, it's heavily wooded, it's also heavily populated with civilians, a very dangerous place for heavy fighting.
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): Yeah, that's the main issue, getting the civilians protected or out of the way so they're able to engage.
But in tank battles, the precision of individual strikes on tanks can be controlled far better than some of the actions against dismounted irregulars, for example.
And I think -- I'm much more comfortable with that than I am with going into the heart of an urban area.
TONY JONES: Indeed, but you may have to do that as well.
Let me just ask you one last question, if I can.
Are you at all worried, even if you do take Baghdad, even if you topple the regime, that there will be many in Iraq and possibly in other parts of the Arab world who may send volunteer fighters, who regard the US-led war and the occupying forces as the enemy and that a sort of Afghanistan situation, what the Soviets faced in Afghanistan, could develop down the track?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): I think that's a distinct possibility.
Some of us thought about those concerns before this war started.
I would also tie an intifada type resistance, as we've seen on the West Bank in Palestine, could well be a by-product of this endeavour.
TONY JONES: I've got to just ask you one last question about that.
If that happens, General, we could be seeing a conflict that goes for many years and embroils many, many more troops than the ones already there, couldn't we?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): Well, I would hope that if we're unable to demonstrate to the Iraqi people that it is our intent to turn this country back to the Iraqi people, then we're going to have to make a very serious re-evaluation of our goals and objectives, but I'm not forecasting great doom or disaster, I'm just saying it's very important for this force to manifest by its behaviour the idea of liberation as opposed to intervention and that means that as the attacking forces go forward in the wake of that effort there needs to be more efforts made to help the people.
TONY JONES: Alright, we will have to leave it there.
Major-General William Nash, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM L. NASH (RET.): Good to be with you, Tony.
Thank you. |
