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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (102464)	6/23/2003 11:34:46 AM
From: marcos	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

'Location location location' - hmm, really foreign affairs is just a scaled-up macro-sort of real estate game, so perhaps the old adage applies - 'The world would be a lovely place if it was like the world in Steven's head' Maybe we could entice him to strata-title it, we could all move there, this would drive down the prices in the ugly parts, which we could then pick up cheap and gentrify for the tourist trade -g- Thoughtful post CB, little time here, sorry ... exactly correct, we cannot turn back the clock, the only real question at any given time is, what do we do next ..... well here on this thread we see multiple promoters of the zionist project, and zero indigenous of the area ... all you can do on threads is type [and this in itself is probably a good thing, far safer for sure], so one side only being present i think it important to keep front and centre a little of the reality that goes to make the present situation ..... can't physically go 'back to 1921', no, but to grasp the situation we must fly our minds there, and further Herzl should have taken Uganda when he was offered it, maybe .... far easier there to subjugate the indigenous, get rid of the independently minded thirty per cent or so, and rule forever .... it's Africa, few care .... but then, who knew in the 1890s that oil would be worth big money, or that the arabs had any, they would have looked like easy targets at the time Britain was trying to forestall violence, in controlling the flow of immigration, avoiding mass surges ... yes the israelis savage them for this, but history demonstrated the validity of the fear - there came surges of thousands, then violence, then expulsion of indigenous ...... not too hard to figure out, i know this coast of BC fairly well, and i promise you that were there to come an invasion of thousands of exclusionist types looking to set up a state in their own interests here, there would be violence, guaranteed Back to the pre-1967 line, and with the UN enforcing it, yes agreed on both points ... a renewed UN, with the democracies having greater weight in the structure, and the US just butting out if/when its rulers du jour take their current snotty attitude toward international cooperation Too bad there's no palestinians around these threads, they need an earful too .... time for them to get themselves a Gandhi, write some new scripture .... meantime though, apologists for the invasion get pretty thick around here, and most typing being reaction to other typing, what you see is what you get -g- .... sorry just rattled this off, no time .... later, cheers

To: Ilaine who wrote (102464)	6/23/2003 12:09:12 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

CB, This has been the thrust of my argument all along. We come at this from opposite views of history/time frames/land ownership etc, but most reasonable people can see a solution of pre 67 war borders that both sides must abide by. Marcos makes excellent points as well in this regard. And the Palestinian Ghandi he alluded to may be a necessary step as well. The whole point of the Bush doctrine is that grievances cannot be settled by terrorism any longer. Pals need to accept this and Israelis need to do whats necessary to let a two state solution follow. One of those things is the elimination of situations that cause collateral damage to civilians by israelis. Look i wasnt born yesterday. When a pizza parlor goes up in israel killing 15, you can be sure that more Palestinians than that will be killed as well. US would do the same in similar circumstances imo. What is needed is the end of historical and religous claims and counterclaims and a realization by both sides that 1967 borders/UN resolutions should stand. Having said all of this, most nations of the world would find it difficult to go back 36 years for the basis of a settlement. In that regard, this is a hard thing for israel to do as well. So both sides have a tough time giving up things considered meaningful. Mike