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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: marcos who wrote (102663)	6/25/2003 12:40:12 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Marcos, "Jewish" is an ethnicity, not just a religion. The common bond is claimed to be race, but it is not First, the fact that the bond is claimed to be race means that Jews are an ethnicity, whether the bond is actually race or not. Second, there is a racial bond, and genetic studies are now beginning to prove it. It doesn't matter that Jews have mixed their blood in different lands. Did you know that geneticists have found a genetic marker for being Cohen, which they say marks a common ancester who lived between 2500 and 4000 years ago? Cohenim show this marker very strongly (over 60%, I think); non Cohenim very weakly (including non-Jews). They found an isolated population of Jews in Southeast Africa, who weren't even generally accepted as Jews. They asked, who is a Cohen? and tested them. Sure enough, they showed the marker.

To: marcos who wrote (102663)	6/25/2003 10:15:04 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Zionism is based on neither religion nor race, but on historical association with the Jewish community. Yes, religion was instrumental in the preservation of that community, but Zionism was a nationalist alternative to religion as the bond. The early Zionists, like those that founded the kibbutzim, were usually atheists and socialists. Other early Zionists were not very observant, the equivalent of "Easter Catholics". As for race, just as an Indian from the Yucatan and a black from Santo Domingo may be considered Hispanic, Jews from Ethiopia or India or China are Jews. Now, it is true that religious criteria are used in part to determine the right of return, because of the inordinate weight given small parties in the Knesset, but most Israelis deplore the situation, and it is likely to be corrected. I will check the precise law in a moment, to make sure of the details. As for the opening of Israel to Arab return, it is not possible. Arabs have been too intransigent, and the mutual suspicion is too great. The Arabs would not seek any accommodation with the Zionists, but intended to drive all of them into the sea, from the beginning. If you want to blame Jewish nationalism, fine, but only if you blame Arab nationalism as well. Of course, there is an implicit double standard: the Jews were supposed to respond angelically to Arab attack and support of the Axis, while the Arabs cannot be blamed for a bloody- minded response to a rather small Jewish presence in the Middle East.......

To: marcos who wrote (102663)	6/25/2003 10:32:40 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 281500

The explicit religious definition of "who is a Jew" was added later to the Law of Return. It uses as the basic criterion the idea that a child of a Jewish mother is a Jew. It also allows various non- Jewish relatives to become citizens along with the Jew making aliyah. Finally, it does not require certification of religious practice. This is the original Law of Return: Law of Return 5710-1950 Right of aliyah 1. Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh. Oleh's visa 2. (a) Aliyah shall be by oleh's visa. (b) An oleh's visa shall be granted to every Jew who has expressed his desire to settle in Israel, unless the Minister of Immigration is satisfied that the applicant (1) is engaged in an activity directed against the Jewish people; or (2) is likely to endanger public health or the security of the State. Oleh's certificate 3. (a) A Jew who has come to Israel and subsequent to his arrival has expressed his desire to settle in Israel may, while still in Israel, receive an oleh's certificate. (b) The restrictions specified in section 2(b) shall apply also to the grant of an oleh's certificate, but a person shall not be regarded as endangering public health on account of an illness contracted after his arrival in Israel. Residents and persons born in this country 4. Every Jew who has immigrated into this country before the coming into force of this Law, and every Jew who was born in this country, whether before or after the coming into force of this Law, shall be deemed to be a person who has come to this country as an oleh under this Law. Implementation and regulations 5. The Minister of Immigration is charged with the implementation of this Law and may make regulations as to any matter relating to such implementation and also as to the grant of oleh's visas and oleh's certificates to minors up to the age of 18 years. Law of Return (Amendment 5714-1954)* Amendment of section 2(b) 1. In section 2 (b) of the Law of Return, 5710-1950** - (1) the full stop at the end of paragraph (2) shall be replaced by a semi-colon, and the word "or" shall be inserted thereafter ; (2) the following paragraph shall be inserted after paragraph (2): "(3) is a person with a criminal past, likely to endanger public welfare.". Amendment of sections 2 and 5 2. In sections 2 and 5 of the Law, the words "the Minister of Immigration" shall be replaced by the words "the Minister of the Interior". Law of Return (Amendment No. 2) 5730-1970* Addition of sections 4A and 4B 1. In the Law of Return, 5710-1950, the following sections shall be inserted after section 4: "Rights of members of family 4A. (a) The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an oleh under the Nationality Law, 5712-1952, as well as the rights of an oleh under any other enactment, are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew, except for a person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his religion. (b) It shall be immaterial whether or not a Jew by whose right a right under subsection (a) is claimed is still alive and whether or not he has immigrated to Israel. (c) The restrictions and conditions prescribed in respect of a Jew or an oleh by or under this Law or by the enactments referred to in subsection (a) shall also apply to a person who claims a right under subsection (a). Definition 4B. For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion." Amendment of section 5 2. In section 5 of the Law of Return, 5710-1950, the following shall be added at the end: "Regulations for the purposes of sections 4A and 4B require the approval of the Constitution, Legislation and Juridical Committee of the Knesset.". Amendment of the Population Registry Law, 5725-1965 3. In the Population Registry Law, 5725-1965***, the following section shall be inserted after section 3: "Power of registration and definition 3A. (a) A person shall not be registered as a Jew by ethnic affiliation or religion if a notification under this Law or another entry in the Registry or a public document indicates that he is not a Jew, so long as the said notification, entry or document has not been controverted to the satisfaction of the Chief Registration Officer or so long as declaratory judgment of a competent court or tribunal has not otherwise determined. (b) For the purposes of this Law and of any registration or document thereunder, "Jew" has the same meaning as in section 4B of the Law of Return, 5710-1950. (c) This section shall not derogate from a registration effected before its coming into force.". us-israel.org