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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (15623)	6/27/2003 4:52:55 PM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 28931

I'll bow down to your "idols" , if you 'ahl will bow down to mine . My God made EVERYTHING , knows EVERYTHING , is everywhere at once , and WAS/IS.... before EVERYTHING there is was here , and SHE is ALL GOOD ! ;-)

To: Greg or e who wrote (15623)	6/28/2003 6:50:17 AM
From: Solon	Respond to of 28931

"They do it based on sometimes arbitrary principals that are unjust" It is only your opinion that their principles are unjust. And your moral opinion being based (as you claim) on some innate intuition...it does not provide any evidentiary basis to inspire confidence in the rest of us. Likewise your strange belief that forcing people to bow (who do not wish to bow) is "justice". This idea of gratuitous force and infringement of freedom goes against the most fundamental concepts of justice which civilized people hold. If you believe that such capricious infringement of natural freedoms is "just", then you obviously view human beings as some type of slave property with no fundamental rights. It frightens me that you can blithely accept the infliction of pain and suffering as "justice" simply because you believe that some "authority" wills it to be. There is the famous college experiment where students "electrocuted" one another upon orders from the Instructor. And we have the scrolls of history to remind us of the millions who have mindlessly aided and abetted the authors of suffering and death because they were told that it was just. This is the threat of people who refuse to determine moral values by reason and feeling--those who look neither to their mind nor their heart for "justice"...but embrace the authority of some charismatic megalomaniac. A reasoning and feeling person would know right away that anyone forcing free humans to bow ought rightly to be considered a pathological creep. That type of behaviour is a type of rape and would be reprehensible and despicable in any other tyrant. For you to attach the concept "justice" to such hateful behaviour is more than disappointing... The Iranian Revolution is a modern example where the spokespersons for another tyrant "God" forced people to bow to this God and murdered MILLIONS who either did not obey or did not do it right. Tyrants can be such slaves to their infinite sense of "love".

To: Greg or e who wrote (15623)	7/2/2003 7:13:41 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

"The Beginning of the Universe ...The Philosophical Foundations of Christian Belief" innerexplorations.com (alot of ground covered here dealing with modern scientific discovery , might find it useful and integrating ..an interesting read... hope your brother is OK . ) The fundamental issue of whether a cosmologically inspired spirituality is being presented as a way to renew or even expand our Christian vision, or as a replacement for it cannot be sidestepped. Let's look at a more egregious example. In the past, writes Diamurid O’Murchu, "only those who believed in God (as described by formal religion) could be theologians. Quantum theology seeks to dismantle this exclusivity and open up the theological exploration to everybody, to all who are prepared to engage with their lived experience of the universe as a quantum reality." 42 Is the next step a quantum spirituality in which we no longer have the need to believe in God? What we have here, I think, is a quantum theology that does not seem to hesitate to substitute itself for Christian theology and spirituality as we have known them. "God is first and foremost a propensity and power for relatedness, and the divine imprint is nowhere more apparent than in nature's own fundamental desire (exemplified in the quarks) to relate - interdependently and interconnectedly... Questions arise which become immensely disturbing for orthodox theologians. "Does God, then, have no independent existence?" "Is God somehow dependent on evolution?" These questions... arise from a certain mode of patriarchal consciousness, characteristic of our mechanistic age, needing certainty, precision, and authoritative clarity. They are valid questions, but of no real interest to a quantum theologian." 43 Once God has disappeared into some evolutionary process, then historical Christianity is bound to soon follow. The story, we are told, is more important than the facts: "Whether or not there was an empty tomb, whether or not anybody actually saw the Risen Jesus, is not of primary significance. If through modern archaeological research we were to rediscover the remains of Jesus, thus establishing that he never rose physically from the grave, that discovery would not undermine the faith of a genuine believer. It would create immense doubt and confusion for millions who follow a dogmatic creed rather than a spirituality of the heart. (It could also be a catalyst for a profound conversion experience.) Theologians in general and guardians of orthodox religion will find the above comments quite disturbing; some will consider them to be blatantly heretical." 44 Frankly, I do find them "quite disturbing." This kind of Quantum theology and whatever kind of Quantum spirituality that could be erected on it has lost its moorings in genuine Christian spirituality. As Robert Bruugs writes in a review of O’Murchu’s book, "Unfortunately O’Murchu’s agendum is much more directed to a new spirituality, one that replaces religion altogether. He says: "Spirituality is inherent to the human condition - also to planetary and cosmic growth; in my estimation, religion is not. Spirituality has an enduring quality, coterminous with human evolution; religion serves a transitory and temporary purpose." And "as a human species we are outgrowing our need for formal religion." With such ease he wipes out Judaism, Christianity, and Islam." 45 But aren't these cosmologically inspired theologies and spiritualities resting on the firm foundation of the new cosmology? Don't they have the impressive weight of modern scientific discoveries behind them? This brings us to the second part of our central question. What is the relationship between these spiritualities and modern science? We need to immediately make a distinction between the basic discoveries of the sciences and their interpretation. We are on solid ground when our spirituality is inspired by an expanding and evolving universe, or the insights of ecologists on the web of life that nourishes us and how that web is being torn apart by our thoughtlessness. But it is quite another matter when we are dealing with the interpretation of scientific discoveries either by the scientists, themselves, or by those who would like to use them to create a new theology and spirituality. We have look at some of the things that the scientific cosmologists have been saying. But what are we to make of them? more, before ...and cont'd