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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: marcos who wrote (103280)	6/28/2003 1:27:05 PM
From: kumar	Respond to of 281500

the current UN doesn't work I have held a belief for a number of years : The political parts of UN do not work. The Humanitarian aid and similar parts of UN do a fabulous job (having been a receipent of such aid).

To: marcos who wrote (103280)	6/28/2003 1:44:24 PM
From: KonKilo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"The first clear message that we have to take out of here is that this war is not over. I think that is pretty clear to all of us". That "Mission Accomplished" banner behind Bush on the carrier is looking as deceptive as the Neocon rationalization for war. Missing US soldiers found dead The First Armoured Brigade had been on patrol in Baghdad The US says it has found the bodies of two soldiers who went missing, feared abducted, from the Iraqi town of Balad on Wednesday. The two men had vanished with their vehicle, weapons and gear. Blood had already been found at the scene. The news follows an overnight attack on a US First Armoured Division convoy in Baghdad which killed one soldier and wounded four others. These are the latest in a series of strikes against US targets and brings the number of coalition troops killed in hostile action since the end of the conflict to 30. The BBC's Peter Greste in Baghdad says the coalition is concerned that anti-US elements may also be planning attacks on soft targets such as United Nations staff and aid workers. The bodies of the two men, Gladimir Philippe and Kevin Ott, were found 32 kilometres (20 miles) north of Baghdad. A senior military official told reporters: "The first clear message that we have to take out of here is that this war is not over. I think that is pretty clear to all of us". COALITION CASUALTIES Since end of hostilities: Killed in combat: US - 24, UK - 6 Non-combat deaths: US - 39, UK - 4 Another officer, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, said that those carrying out such attacks were the remnants of the Baath Party trying to regain control. "That's not going to happen," he said. However, in the past three days alone, incidents have included: * A US soldier reportedly shot in the face while shopping in Baghdad * One American military policeman killed while investigating a car theft near the southern town of Najaf * Clashes south-west of the Iraqi capital that left a US soldier dead and eight wounded * Assailants blowing up a US military vehicle with a roadside bomb * A rocket-propelled grenade attack on US vehicles travelling towards the airport, killing an Iraqi driver. * Demolition of an oil pipeline On Tuesday, six British military policemen were killed in southern Iraq after trouble erupted during weapons searches. Five hundred soldiers patrolled the town of Majar al-Kabir on Saturday for the first time since the killings, in what they described as a "show of teeth".

To: marcos who wrote (103280)	6/28/2003 2:47:42 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Things like this, you're better off going with friends .... Friends? Like who? Would you be referring to the French, Germans, and Russians, all of whom had tremendous financial interests in preserving the Baathist regime in Iraq? Who acted in almost every manner possible to undermine the UN sanctions against Iraq so they would prove ineffective (if not already inherently flawed in their implementation)?? Who acted, even as recently as last January, to sign multi-billion dollars deals with the Baathists, as a pay-off for opposing any form of military enforcement of the various UNSC binding resolutions against Iraq? The fact that these binding resolutions even passed the UNSC is indicative that none of our "friends" could provide convincing evidence to dispute the potential existence, and/or risk, of Iraq's WMD program. Had they possessed such evidence, they could have plausibly opposed these sanctions in public and vetoed those resolutions. What they did instead, was to set the UN up for failure. To create binding resolutions that they had no intention of enforcing. To undermine the credibility and authority of the UN councils.. To turn the UN into a spineless and ineffectual mechanism for maintaining international order and security. the current UN doesn't work, i granted you that right off The way you make the UN work is to publicly shame its leadership into enforcing its binding mandates, as Bush did in Iraq. I mean, come one.. it's a no-brainer.. The UN required Iraq to prove that it's disarmed. And to achieve this, there needed to be complete confidence Saddam was not deceiving the UN. SADDAM WAS REQUIRED TO CREATE THAT TRUST, not the UN. It was NOT the responsibility of the UNSCOM/UNMOVIC inspectors to carry out investigations and intelligence operations in order to obtain this proof. Thus, the minute it became apparent that Saddam had continued to deceive the UN, it should have been a direct military threat of regime change, not economic sanctions which should have been pursued. Only such a course would provide a reasonable chance of effecting compliance from Saddam. But it wasn't going to happen so long as Saddam held out hope of undermining the UN resolutions via his extorsion/bribery of our "Friends" (as you refer to them). "You want Iraqi oil all to yourselves? Oppose the UN resolutions, and/or act to undermine them in order to preserve my regime". And that's just what our "friends" did, Marcos.. And our other "friends" such as Chrietien, and others, chose the cowards way out, preferring an ineffectual and toothless UN organization, rather than enforcing its binding resolutions. Hawk