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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (103310)	6/28/2003 5:16:18 PM
From: Ish	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<But I will restate that I want the Iraqis to take on these duties as quickly as possible. >> I have a friend leaving for Kuwait in about a week. He'll work in Kuwait and Iraq training Iraqis to be police and setting up departments. It's a one year stint. He's a retired policeman who retired less than 3 years ago and that's the requirement for applying. The program started in May but anything federal tends to move slow.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (103310)	6/29/2003 3:14:11 AM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Hawkmoon; Re: "Hello??!! The context of that statement referred to sweeps of Sunni areas, not Shiite or Kurds." Here's the complete context: Bilow, quoting from NY Times, June 15, 2003 ... Mr. Pachachi said that military sweeps through civilian areas with mass arrests, interrogations and gun battles, intended to suppress the remnants of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party and military command, were inflaming sentiments against the American and British occupation. ... #reply-19033609 Hawkmoon, in reply As for performing "sweeps", it all depends on where we're sweeping. Do you think the Kurds or Shiites give a rat's @ss about whether these sweeps create resentment? #reply-19033936 Note that the original article did not distinguish between Sunni and Shiite areas. It stated that sweeps for weapons pissed off the locals wherever they are made. Your statement that "it all depends on where we're sweeping" implies that your comment was in reference to our sweeping in more places than just Sunni, and therefore that our sweeps in Kurd or Shiite areas were not "inflaming sentiments". But now you, being a liar, wish to claim that your statement instead only meant that the Shiites didn't mind our making sweeps of Sunni areas. Jesus weeps, do you suppose that this was some sort of profound comment on the situation? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! LOL!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Re: "But I will restate that I want the Iraqis to take on these duties as quickly as possible. Only Iraqis can truly understand the extent to which they can successfully carry out these sweeps." In this your hopes are also doomed to failure, for at least two reasons. (a) Iraqis who collaborate with us will be assassinated, but having to live in communities, they will make easier targets than our well protected soldiers. (b) Iraqis will join the police forces for the money, and will then only pretend to be searching for weapons. The reasons is simple. Birds of a feather flock together, and we ain't of the same feather as the Iraqis. The weapons we supply to the Iraqis will be used against us, just as the weapons we supplied to the South Vietnamese were used against us. Re: "We're making quite a few mistakes in this post-war civil affairs effort. We're not "winning the peace" that I can see because it seems there is too little understanding of what is required to form a national government." It's good that you're beginning to see the problems. But you still have no idea of the depth of the hatred that area has for us. Re: "This might lead to some street battles between rival "gangs" (because this is what they really are), but that's for the local Iraqis to hash out.. Out job is to prevent it from growing out of control, and to act as leverage between factions." Our presence has increased the chaos in Iraq substantially. How many months will it take before you agree that it has grown out of control? Re: "Those who cooperate together and work to rebuild the nation receive support from the US/UK. Those who don't will find their rivals provided that support." This is the most rational comment you've written about this conflict so far. But why bother getting involved in the details? The clans are already there. We can pull out, let the fur fly, and support the winners we like. As more people agree with your last comment, the impetus to pull out and let the locals fight it out will become larger and larger. So long as the Baathists don't win, our situation won't be that bad. Of course there's a good chance that we'll be dealing with the "Islamic Republic of Iraq", but we already have good relations with the Islamic Republic of Saudi Arabia. -- Carl