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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (5629)	7/10/2003 11:18:36 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15991

What do you mean, "over and over again"? Some of it's contained in the following discussion and responses, including eyewitness participation, indicating that Israeli torpedo boats were machine gunning survivors trying to abandon ship and the fact that the ship was not attacked with bombs, but with napalm, which would have little hope of sinking the ship, but would render it hors d'combat. The eyewitness account by J. Meadors also states that the boats closed to withing 100 yards (the length of a football field and shorter than the actual length of the ship itself) and still apparently claimed they couldn't identify it: hnn.us Undisputed facts, indicating the Liberty had been positively identified by a reconnaisance aircraft, and then later comments describing how an Israeli pilot claimed he saw a 4 foot long .50 cal machine gun on the deck, but failed to see the 40 square foot (5'x8') flag flying above the ship. ussliberty.org When that flag was destroyed, McConagle ordered that a 7'x13' flag be hoisted. usni.org That link also should be noted as being the US Naval Institute, a highly respectable and independent source. You will note that this article came out last month, which may have helped fire up some of the recent NSA disclosures. But I'm sorry Nadine.. Apparently Israel, if this article is to be believed, has honored the pilots who undertook that mission with some form of museum display. Apparently the story was credible enough to evoke some seriously harsh words from John Morrison, NSA deputy director for operations, as well as from Gen. Odom.. The fact is that the Israelis flew a "flying boxcar" at mast height over the Liberty. They knew it was out there and should be avoided as a non-combatant. You certainly should realize that this aircraft would have reported back its finding the USS Liberty and identifying it to its high command. That eliminates any real belief that the Israeli air force general staff didn't know the ship was out there. There is also eyewitness accounts that the Israeli mirages bore no markings, indicating a "special unit" used for plausible deniability operations, and probably briefed to speak as if they didn't know what they were attacking. This implies a deliberate operation. But the truly disgusting aspect of it is that the torpedo boats machine gunned lifeboats when it was clearly evident that they were trying to abandon ship. That's a war crime and some folks should have been punished for that. I'm sorry Nadine.. I'll accept the article you have posted, but it's going to take a lot more than that to cause me to change my impression about just how thick the "fog of war" has to be to create such incredibly incompetent (and criminal in the case of interfering with lifeboats and abadoning ship) actions.. But neither am I willing to dredge up that past event to the extent that I am willing to continue punishing the entire Israeli population for the actions of their leadership. Hawk