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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Kevin Rose who wrote (425944)7/12/2003 12:22:50 AM
From: American Spirit  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670
 
Bush continues serving big oil interests: His main visit to African is with oil-producers. Why don't we just put Exxon in charge of the government?

ABUJA. Nigeria (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) is likely to be pressed by Nigeria's President Olusegun Obasanjo Saturday to send troops to help restore peace in Liberia as he ends an African trip in the major U.S. oil supplier.

Nigeria's position as fifth largest crude exporter to the United States will give Obasanjo clout when he takes up growing calls across Africa for Bush to contribute troops to a mainly African peacekeeping force for Liberia.



To: Kevin Rose who wrote (425944)7/12/2003 9:28:48 AM
From: Johannes Pilch  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670
 
[Homosexuality is naturally foreign only] as it pertains to procreation.

Not only as it pertains to procreation. The fact is, every single one of our cells is imprinted with the genetic contributions of exactly one man and exactly one woman. Heterosexuality is literally present in every cell of your body. It is literally an organic part of your most fundamental construction and nature. There is no homosexuality here at all – and that is objectively apparent. Homosexuality is naturally foreign to fundamental human identity.

In many other instances, evidence points… that homosexuality is a natural portion of widely diverse human sexual behavior.

Look. You are merely confusing that which exists in nature with the mere acts of that which exists in nature, attempting to alter the natural identity of the physical thing based upon its actions. That is completely irrational and backward.

Nature, what materially exists, is all there is pal. There is no such thing as "spirit", "soul" or magic. You treat behaviors as if they are magical things that reign above nature. Behaviors do not materially exist in nature of themselves, but are only the movements of materially extant bodies acting upon one another. Some of these movements can be such that they run contrary to the material existence of the organisms from which they flow. To discover when this occurs we must first discover an organism's fundamental material nature (i.e. fundamental identity), then judge its actions against our findings. If the actions have integrity with the organism’s material identity, those actions are “natural,” since they logically flow from the extant nature. If not, the actions are “unnatural,” since they run counter to this nature. Homosexuality underlies not a single human on earth. Heterosexuality underlies all humans and objectively so. Complete the thing from there…

To limit sexual behavior to reproduction is 'dehumanizing' our sexual nature.

The natural truth is exactly opposite of this – and objectively apparent. Humanity is directly and organically grounded only in heterosexual coupling. Homosexuality is “dehumanizing” to humans because it serves as no basis for humans at all. It is literally “dehumanizing.” This is why using the might of law to force humans to ‘recognize and respect’ homosexuality is a crime against humanity. It forces humans to ‘recognize and respect’ as human, that which is naturally inhuman.

You cannot argue both sides; the biological argument that you use is that heterosexual is more natural biologically.

Yes, but you still fail to understand the very simple philosophy underlying my position. You are arguing far above the locus of the argument. Come down here.

The original poster made such a lame claim; it is standard rightist stuff. That's how we got into the whole 'domino' discussion. His position was that homosexuality led to all sorts of 'bad' behaviors; I think bestiality and man/child love were the examples he cited.

Well, if I correctly recall, Prolife did not declare that those who engage in homosexuality would eventually end up having sex with kids and animals.

[Here is an argument that forbids bestiality and polygamy, but that accepts homosexuality:] Same-sex partners have formed loving life commitments with stable families and strong morales. They have their own children, or adopt, and wish to raise those children in a world that is free from ridicule and scorn, and to enjoy the same rights as other heterosexual married couples. I believe the humanity of the situation in itself, along with the fact that they are not harming each other or other people, makes it evidence enough.

HAHAHA! You obviously sense the flaw here. You claim “Same-sex partners have formed loving life commitments with stable families and strong morales.” This is all arbitrary and subjective stuff, Kevin. But let us mindlessly accept it for a moment. Polygamists and those who have sex with animals have clearly lived in “stable” families and their “morals” are at least as great as the morals of homosexuals. You cannot deny any of these on so flimsy a basis, once you accept one. You are still logically stuck with all of these corruptions. And this is precisely the position of society.

[Homosexuals] have their own children, or adopt, and wish to raise those children in a world that is free from ridicule and scorn, and to enjoy the same rights as other heterosexual married couples.

Homosexuals most certainly do not have their own children. In every single case children most fundamentally belong to a man and a woman, and not to a homosexual “couple.” But getting back to the point, by your standards polygamists and those who have sex with animals have also had their own children and they have wished to raise them in a world free from ridicule, etc… There is nothing here that forbids polygamy and bestiality and that accepts homosexuality. If you accept any one of the three, you are logically compelled to accept the other two.

I believe the humanity of the situation in itself, along with the fact that they are not harming each other or other people, makes it evidence enough.

And clearly polygamists and those who have sex with animals cannot be said to have harmed anyone anymore than homosexuals have. You are still stuck with all three, pal.
You simply cannot get out of it because the essential nature of all three of these corrupts human identity in the same way. They are all three of the same species of human corruption.

However, just because you believe others are dead wrong in their beliefs does not give you the right to take aways *their* rights…

Because homosexuals are naturally heterosexual humans, as I am, they as individuals have every human right that I have. But unlike with heterosexual unions, homosexual “unions” have no rights accruing to them as a result of their homosexuality because these unions themselves are not human. The matter here has nothing to do with “taking away” anything. What you clearly wish to do is give inhuman unions new rights. You are the modernizer here, not I; and being such requires you to force me to recognize that which is foreign to all humans. You commit a crime here against human nature itself.

There are many people who hold beliefs that are not only contrary to yours, but so contrary as to be distasteful.

And we must evaluate both our views and theirs to see if they are contrary to our shared nature. You have obviously failed to do this with the homosexual view.

We know, however, that our country was founded on the principle that men (and, now, women :) are free to hold beliefs that are contrary to the majority, and still have their rights protected.

But we are not talking here simply of men. We are talking unions of men. The unions you accept are foreign to man, and for that reason it is a natural crime to force humans to ‘acknowledge and respect’ them. You may accept them if you wish, but you have no right in nature to force anyone else to accept them.

The real issue is: do homosexuals harm others in a way that *requires* the government to take away their rights?

That is not the real issue. The real issue concerns whether you have the natural right to employ the might of government to force humans to respect that which is inhuman. You have no such right. Arrogating to yourself such rights is a severe crime against human nature.